Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
>>> Coming up next on "Arizona
Horizon," we'll get the latest
on how the Arizona national
guard is addressing reports
Of long-standing ethical and
criminal misconduct.
And should there be competition
among electricity providers in
Arizona?
We'll hear from both sides
Of the issue.
Those stories next on
"Arizona Horizon".
>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the friends of eight, members
of your Arizona PBS station.
Thank you.
>>> Good evening and welcome
To "Arizona Horizon."
I'm Ted Simons.
A federal appeals court
Today struck down Arizona's
Ban on abortions performed
after 20 weeks of pregnancy.
The 9th circuit court of
appeals ruled that the law
violates several U.S.
Supreme Court rulings on
abortion, including Roe V.
Wade.
Today's move reverses a
Lower court ruling that
Upheld the law passed by
The legislature and signed
By the governor two years ago.
>>> Allegations of ***,
ethical, and criminal
misconduct by top commanders
At the Arizona National Guard
were first exposed by the
"Arizona republic" reports
that led to state and federal
investigations.
A department of defense
Report outlined evidence of
fraud, *** harassment and
cover-ups in a culture that
failed to pursue perpetrators
or protect victims.
Major general Hugo Salazar,
The leader of the Arizona
national guard, recently
unveiled reforms to address
The reported problems.
Here to tell us more is
"Arizona republic" reporter
Dennis Wagner, who broke
The story.
And quite a story it turned out
to be.
Thank you for joining us.
When did you begin this
investigation and why?
>> It started around May of
last year with a phone call
from an officer, turned out to
be several officers, who came
to me and they said that they
had uncovered, even
investigated in some cases,
widespread corrupt conduct.
We are talking about recruiter
fraud, *** abuse of
recruits, embezzlement of
funds.
Drunken driving that went
unpunished a whole slew.
And they said in their view,
there was a corrupt climate and
that it was tolerated by the
upper levels of the guard in
part because some of them were
compromised by fraternization
and -- all of those complaints
were referred back to the
administration of the guard and
nothing was done.
They said they came to me as a
last resort when nothing else
was working and what one of
them said to me was, you know,
at this point, the honor of the
guard is so lost.
I wouldn't let my daughter
join.
>> Oh, my goodness.
More than one whistle blower
here, correct?
>> Multiple.
>> Multiple.
How long had these things been
going on?
>> It goes back years.
Depending on who you talk to,
I've had people say, well, you
know, you only went back to
2005, 2006.
You should have seen it in the
late 1990s or the early 2000s.
>> My goodness.
>> I really doesn't know the
answer to that.
>> We are talking, again, you
mentioned a number of things
here, drug dealing was also --
paintball attacks on homeless
people mentioned as well.
>> Right, there was a whole
network of -- there was an FBI
investigation of smuggling
narcotics out of Mexico where
they used the national guard
Humvee and filled it with
*** and what they thought
was *** from the airplane,
brought it to Las Vegas to
distribute up there.
The paintball attacks were --
they were called BUM hunts.
And recruiters would take new
recruits and other privates out
and sometimes in the national
guard vehicle and drive around
north Phoenix with paintball
guns and they would sometimes
hunt homeless people and shoot
them with paintballs.
Sometimes they would get them
to dance for them or do other
humiliating things.
>> So, who are alleged to have
been involved and how high up
did they go
>> The guard is 8,000
personnel, military and -- most
problems occurred with the
full-time guard, constituting a
forth of that number.
The majority of the people in
the national guard are weekend
soldiers.
They have civilian jobs often.
They're dedicated to what
they're doing.
There is an entrenched
full-time personnel situation.
People were, I think, in one
side of the guard, I think, the
average period of time being in
the guard is 20 years.
That's how entrenched it is.
Oftentimes it is cousins,
brothers, friends get hired and
they have relationships, they
are beholding to one another
and that kind of thing goes on.
>> You did your report.
>> Uh-hmm.
>> Department of defense
becomes interested here, I
would take it.
We can understand why.
They release a report, I think,
what, earlier this month,
something along those lines.
>> What actually happened.
I did my report and the
governor announced she would
have an independent
investigation.
She asked the national guard
bureau, a branch of -- umbrella
organization over national
guards, Pentagon organization.
She asked them to assign an
investigator.
They assigned a gentleman from
the Oklahoma national guard
named major general Rickey
Adams.
He brought in a team.
They investigated for weeks or
months actually here to see
what they would find.
>> And what did they find?
>> They confirmed with my
reporting essentially.
They said that they found all
of that, and they said they
found more.
They said they found a climate
where misconduct was not
appropriately addressed.
They found a climate where
leaders did not have the moral
high ground to hold others
accountable under them.
So that the culture
progressively had gotten worse.
>> Basically, I'm not going to
do anything to you, because if
I do, you're going to come
after me because we both have
done something wrong.
>> Either because I owe you
something, I have leverage over
you.
There is multiple possible ways
that that can work.
>> One of the quotes in the
report, rules are flexible,
fraternization common, risk for
punishment low, does that sound
about right?
>> That is what the gist of it
was.
>> What happens with major
general -- who is major general
Hugo Salazar?
>> He is the commander of the
national guard, adjutant
general, reports to the
commander in chief, which is
the governor.
A full career officer.
He was the assistant adjutant
general for a couple of years
before he became the man in
charge.
He was the chief of staff
before that.
He has a long career there.
>> Okay.
So, the governor, I would take
it, or someone at the
governor's office not happy I
would imagine with what is
going on at the guard.
What actions did they take
regarding Salazar?
>> When the investigation --
the investigative report came
out, 107 page report, the
governor announced that the
findings meant that the
national guard was not broken
that the findings were not an
indictment of the national
guard.
She announced that she was
going -- that she was
disappointed in some of the
findings and she was going to
have major general Salazar
prepare for her an action plan
which came out last week to
deal with the areas of problem.
>> So, she said the system
wasn't broken.
Wasn't there an anonymous
report in the federal
investigation, 15 ***
assaults in just the past year?
>> That was among those who
responded to the survey, which
wasn't even half of the
soldiers and airmen.
There was -- there is obviously
far more that actually
occurred.
*** harassment and assault
singled out in the report as a
tick -- particular area of
concern.
Investigators found it was
facilitated by the fact that so
many command officers had
fraternization issues that they
were not in an issue to
challenge what others are
doing.
>> That apparently is not
broken enough to relieve
Salazar of his position and he
is now in fact in charge --
>> He has come out with a list
of reforms, changes.
There were severe problems in
structure.
There were a lot of problems.
They couldn't even do court
marshal.
This past year at the Arizona
national guard -- we are
talking about serious crimes
here.
There have been death threats
and people bringing guns into
work and all kinds of things
going on.
And people just weren't getting
punished.
>> With that in mind, seen some
of the reforms listed by
general Salazar here.
Report if you see something
wrong.
Investigate misconduct.
Change policies to better enact
discipline.
Critics are wondering why this
guy is A, still around, and, B,
investigating things that
happened on his own watch.
>> I'm not going to say whether
he should still be around or
not.
That is up to the governor.
All my job is to do to tell the
story, what happened, and what
I say happened -- what the
soldiers and airmen who have
come to me.
I talked more than 50 of them.
They all say the same thing.
You are exactly right in what
you report and keep reporting.
I am reporting what they
said --
>> I was going to say, have
you -- are you hearing from
folks still in the national
guard or hearing a lot from
folks --
>> Every day.
Every day.
Phone calls, emails from people
in the national guard.
Don't let up.
>> Don't let up.
Do we know what's happening
next in the story?
Where do we go from here?
>> I think it is at this point,
I don't see a next chapter
except are these reforms going
to be put in place and are they
just paper or is there going to
be real action?
>> Again, requiring reports of
misconduct by senior leaders.
Tracking investigations.
Changing policies to better
enact discipline.
I think a lot of people would
be surprised that those things
weren't done prior.
>> Well, that's the task of
major general Salazar.
He has announced when the
report came out, actually it
was announced that he is
retiring this year.
But that he has been tasked to
carry out this mission first.
>> How cooperative has he been
with your investigation?
With the media?
>> Initially, he was very
cooperative.
After my first series of
articles, I did a series that
came out in October after that
came out, he informed me by
email that he would not talk to
me again.
And they have stopped providing
any public records that are
required to be provided under
state and federal law.
>> Is it true that there has
been a new effort to maybe
tighten target even whistle
blowers?
Whistle blowers becoming a
threat here at all as far as
you understand?
>> One of the problems pointed
out in the national guard
report and my report, whistle
blowers -- especially victims
of *** harassment and abuse
become targets of retaliation.
The national guard has a firm
policy against retaliation.
But the new policies, new code
of ethics that came out also
has a firm prohibition against
talking to reporters like me.
And you can't blow the whistle
that way.
>> Okay.
Fantastic work on this.
I have a funny feeling you're
still going to be working on
this for quite awhile.
Don't you?
>> Afraid so.
>> Thank you for joining us.
We appreciate it.
>> Thank you.
\M\M
>> At the entrance of blue head
city's community park on state
route 95, is a marker honoring
northeastern Arizona's vital
relationship with the Colorado
river.
30 years in the mid 1800s,
commercial steam ships served
the mighty communities of
northern Arizona.
Hauling supplies from as far
down river as Yuma.
Cargo unloaded, and often
returning downstream with barge
loads of local ORE.
Bull head's rock, located just
upstream.
Used as a navigation marker and
the point where Mohave
Indians --
>> The building of Davis dam.
Today the Colorado is still
Bullhead City's life blood.
Jet skis replaced the steam
ships and Nevada's casinos
across the river have replaced
the mines.
Mining tourist wallets instead
of the ORE from the mountains.
>>> Deregulation of electrical
power markets swept the
Nation more than a decade ago.
But the effort produced
Massive failures, including
The infamous Enron case.
Now, the Arizona corporation
commission is taking early
And decidedly cautious steps
At what is being called
Retail competition in a
landscape changed by an
increase in power sources
outside the regulatory domain
of the commission.
Here now with more on the
future of electric -- also
joining us is the current
corporation commissioner, Bob
Burns.
Thank you for joining us.
>> Thank you.
>> Give us a better definition
of electric deregulation.
>> It is to designate that
certain components of electric
delivery, like generation are
opened up to outside providers
prior to --
>> Is that how you see it as
well?
>> Yeah, well, I think there
is -- I need to qualify my
statements because I'm in a
position of not taking any
sides.
Now, coming out of the
legislature, I used to be able
to take sides.
But not anymore.
This is a different situation.
The responsibility of the
corporation commissioners is to
represent the rate payers.
And so, we end up in these
issues of people on one side or
the other and our
responsibility is to represent
the rate payers.
We want to be able to get the
best deal for the rate payer
obviously.
And there are a number of
people out there saying that
the way to do that is by retail
competition, deregulation, open
market, so forth.
We have a -- regulated
Monopoly, model in place now,
and so a transition away from
that is going to be a major,
major effort.
We want to at least take a
look, but look very, very
closely at it.
And study it very, very closely
before we make any movements in
any direction or the other.
>> The idea of the best deal
for rate payers, I mean, there
is the best deal as to what you
pay, and there is the best deal
as far as public policy and
infrastructure and the whole
nine yards.
Talk to us more about that.
>> Most people want a low rate
and reliable service.
It is pretty -- reliable
service is even more important
here in Arizona because of our
hot summers.
You want to make sure that your
air conditioning is going to
run pretty much every day.
So, the -- as Bob said, the
commission's role is to balance
the needs of the rate payer and
the utilities to make sure that
they're getting a fair profit
off of their activity.
And that balancing act is
really important.
But for the average user, you
know, Joe and Mary, they're
basically saying, I'd like to
have reliable, affordable
electricity.
>> And I guess some people
would look at this and say is
there a problem that
deregulation would fix?
>> Well, and that's a statement
that a lot of people make.
What's broke?
>> Yes.
>> But there is also the other
statement, there is always the
better mouse trap.
And now the pressure that's
coming from those people, those
organizations, those different
types of energy production that
are outside of the control of
the corporation commission.
You've got independents
building power stations out
there.
You've got the solar issue.
You've got the wind.
All of these other different
mechanisms that weren't around
when the last debacle happened.
It is a different landscape.
And so, I think it is
imperative that we, the
commissioners, representing the
rate payers get out in front of
this issue.
We need to understand as
much -- as best we can what the
options are out there and then
make decisions based on that.
This is the reason why we voted
to put this into a study
category if you will to take a
closer look and better know
what all is out there, as far
as the options are concerned
and how it will impact at the
bottom line the rate payers.
>> Is it a different landscape
than back in the California
energy crisis/Enron days?
That was a debacle and then
some.
Have things changed?
>> Not to my vantage point, no.
I mean, there are different
forms of generation solar and
wind primarily.
But the issues are still the
same.
It is the same group that is
coming in and applying
pressure.
Wanna be electric power
brokers, big power users.
Mainly deregulation is to help
lower prices for big
multinational corporations.
The big box retailers.
The mines, industrial activity.
Most -- the average smaller
rate payer really isn't in this
game.
It is a big money deal.
And there is lobbyists.
In Congress, in the last
decade, they spent over $50
million just lobbying this
effort in Congress.
It is a big money game.
People from outside, like Enron
did 12 years ago.
They came from outside and they
wanted a share of the money to
be made in the power business.
From that vantage point, it's
the same group, pretty much
identical players, actually,
wanting to get back into the
power market and sell to the
big users of electricity.
>> Well, I think there is some
additions to that.
With all of these rooftop
systems that are going into
place, as that footprint grows,
that has an impact on the
utility company's ability to
recover the costs of building
the plant.
And so, that issue is also out
there to be -- to be dealt
with.
I've heard recently in a couple
of conferences that I've been
at that the development of fuel
cells, and if they become
successful, there was even the
talk of a refrigerator-size
fuel cell for the homeowner,
which would basically put you
almost 100% independent.
Now, there is always going to
be that back-up system in case
of some kind of failure.
But -- so those issues need to
be rung out, I believe.
So we understand as
commissioners what works and
what will not work.
This pressure of the outside
entities, fuel cell people,
there is talk of a break
through possibly.
Who knows when -- on batteries
which would have a tremendous
impact on the rooftop
community.
If they could have batteries
and that all comes back as a
smaller base for the utility to
operate off of.
>> We talked about this before.
There may be a new normal
coming very quickly as far as
utilities are concerned.
Especially when you talk about
net metering and a variety of
other issues that could put
lots of homeowners, very
independent of whatever is
happening with the major
utility.
Is this just a step toward that
direction, or is -- have things
not changed in the grand scheme
of things that much.
>> Fuel cells, we were talking
about that back in 2001 and
2003.
Same issue.
Solar we were talking about.
Wind we were talking about.
You know, the kinds of issues
are the same ones.
The same group that is
basically in the dialogue.
For me, I was a proponent of
deregulation back in the late
1990s.
I even went to some of the
American legislative exchange
council meetings where they
touted it and met with Enron
officials in Washington, D.C.,
where they touted it.
It wasn't until the big
meltdown, as you already
mentioned, first California,
2000, 2001, basically the
electric system in California
melted down to the point they
were having rolling blackouts
all of the time.
It was a fiasco.
The governor lost his job
because of it.
Rate payers paying huge rate
increases from that.
And then Enron.
Enron fell apart and it cost
hundreds of millions --
billions of dollars to
Arizona's -- to America's
economy.
Those things happen.
And to me, I don't see any
lessons learned yet that
protect us from that downside.
>> Is there, from what you've
seen so far, and I guess
from -- obviously you are
studying as opposed to deciding
right now, have other states,
or other states using these
ideas, similar to Arizona?
Can you compare and contrast?
And how do you keep Enron from
happening again?
>> Well, I think we obviously
have to learn from mistakes
that were made.
There are other states out
there, my understanding Texas
and Pennsylvania have some
model in place.
But that's part of this
process.
We establish the process to do
the study to make sure that we
don't get into this situation
that happened before.
I mean, that's -- and I think
everybody on the commission is
very, very sensitive to that
issue.
All of the employees there are
sensitive to that issue.
That was a big, big mistake.
And so, we definitely don't
want to make that mistake
again.
But we do need to be able to
understand the developments
taking place and a lot of
development I believe has taken
place.
There may be some of the same
types of units, solar and fuel
cells and so forth, but those
things evolve.
And at some point, they break
through and they become usable
and very -- a lot less costly
to use.
So --
>> With that in mind, is it the
best scenario that we can find
right now for all of us to have
these two major utilities with
boundaries as -- as the rule
for whether or not you use X or
Y.
>> Rates in Arizona are as low
or lower than almost every
deregulated state.
If you look at the deregulated
states, big northeastern
industrialized pretty much
democrat, governmental
controlled states.
And their rates are way higher.
We pay about 9.5 cents for
kilowatt hour here.
They are paying 14, 15 cents
there.
They are primarily the total
group of the most expensive
states in the nation.
Issues we have to resolve.
I'm supportive of the
commission taking a look at the
issue.
That's appropriate.
I think they're doing a good
job to move slowly and
cautiously into that.
But this has to come down it is
not just for the big rate
payers.
This has to be for Joe, Mary,
average little guy in the
community.
>> Very quickly.
>> Well, we put the priority,
rate payers to the individual
and small business people are
in that category of needing the
protection, that we are there
to provide.
>> Very good gentlemen.
Good discussion.
Good to have you both here.
>> Thank you.
>> Great to be here.
>> And that is it for now.
I'm Ted Simons.
Thank you for joining us.
You have a great evening.
Captioning Performed by
LNS Captioning
www.lnscaptioning.com
>> "Arizona Horizon" is made
possible by contributions from
the friends of eight, members
of your Arizona PBS station.
Thank you.
>> When you want to be more
informed, eight delivers news
and analysis with multiple
perspectives thanks to
financial support from you
and --
>> Travel to another world,
exotic aromas and period Decor.
Fine dining experience north
Scottsdale, Scottsdale road.
Gourmet exotic cuisine at its
best.
>> Wells Fargo advisors.
Proudly supports quality
programming on eight Arizona
PBS.
480-461-5006.
>> Later on 8-HD.
>> Next time on frontline --
>> Fraud and potential criminal
conduct were at the heart of
the financial crisis.
>> Crisis on wall street.
No one going to jail, no one
being held accountable.
>> Too big to jail.
>> Pervasively corrupt pattern
of behavior.
>> 90% of the underlying roads
defective --
>> Fraudulent --
>> Yes.
>> This is a stain on the
American justice system.
>> The untouchables.
>> Tonight at 9:00 on eight-HD.
>> Eight-HD, eight life, eight
world.
This is Arizona PBS, supported
by viewers like you.
Thank you.
>> Celebrate Arizona's history
with a moment in time.
Registered investment advisor.
Construction of the Roosevelt
dam began in 1905.
President Theodore Roosevelt
dedicated the dam named in his
honor upon its completion in
1911.
>> Coming up on eight-HD, eight
life, and eight world.
>> Are you a news junky?
History buff?
Science or nature lover?
Discover eight world, an entire
channel devoted to bringing the
world home to Arizona.
Eight world, *** 88, over the
air via antenna 8.3.
Visit azpbs.org/world, or call
602-496-2308.
Discover your world.
Eight world.
>> Coming soon to eight-HD.
>> America's tribute to those
who have served.
The national Memorial Day --
>> Being on the steps of the
capitol takes us back to the
meaning of Memorial Day, coming
together in grateful
remembrance of those who
sacrificed and died for our
country.
>> National symphony orchestra,
join us for a night to
remember.
on
eight-HD.
>> Support for eight comes from
viewers like you and from:
>> Hospice of the valley,
serving diverse patients and
families with quality end of
life care since 1977.
The not-for-profit hospice
cares for all regardless of
ability to pay.
HOV.org.
>> Ironwood cancer and research
centers, personalized cancer
care through medical oncology,
radiation, and radiology
services focusing on emotional,
physical and social support.
Outsmarting cancer one patient
at a time.
>> The global institute of
sustainability is the heart of
ASU's sustainability
initiatives, advancing
research, education, and
business practices for an