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>>> PRESENTATION OF DIALOGUE ON IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION IS MADE
POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA MOORE
CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION, COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE MOORE'S FAMILY
LEGACY BUILDING THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO.
>>> COMING UP, IT WAS THE LONGEST SIEGE OF THE VIETNAM
WAR.
KHE SANH.
FOR THOSE WHO FOUGHT THERE AND SURVIVED, THEIR EXPERIENCES HAVE
NEVER BEEN FAR FROM THEIR MINDS.
I TALK TO A FORMER MARINE WHO WAS DETERMINED TO PRESERVE THOSE
MEMORIES.
THE STORY "BRAVO" COMPANY AT KHE SANH NEXT ON "DIALOGUE."
>> I THOUGHT OH, MY GOD, WE ARE NOT GOING TO SURVIVE THIS.
>> I WAS NEVER SO SCARED IN ALL MY LIFE.
JUST ABSOLUTELY SCARED TO DEATH.
>> THE REASON THAT EVERYONE AROUND US IS DYING IS BECAUSE
THIS IS A MACHINE GUN NEST OVER THERE.
>> THE FIGHT WAS INTENSE.
>> SATCHEL CHARGING THEIR BUNKERS, FLAME-THROWERS.
>> EVERYTHING IS A COMBAT IN VIETNAM.
THE THING THAT WAS REALLY AMAZING ABOUT THAT, WAS YOU HAD
YOUNG CHILDREN, 20 WEEKS BEFORE KHE SANH, WERE SITTING AT HOME
AT THE BREAKFAST TABLE WITH THEIR MOM AND DAD.
>> DON'T KNOW WHATCOM BAT IS, OR WAR IS UNTIL FACE IT.
AND IT'S NOT A JOLLY *
>> HELLEE AND WELCOME TO "DIALOGUE."
I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN, YOU WERE JUST WATCHING PART OF A PREVIEW
FOR A DOCUMENTARY CALLED "BRAVO: COMMON MEN, UNCOMMON VALOR."
IT'S ABOUT THE MEN OF "BRAVO" COMPANY, FIRST BATTALION 26th
MARINES, AND THEIR PART IN THE BATTLE OF KHE SANH IN THE
VIETNAM WAR.
LASTING 77 DAYS, FROM LATE JANUARY TO EARLY APRIL, 1968,
THE SIEGE KHE SANH WOULD ULTIMATELY RESULT IN WHAT'S
CONSIDERED THE MOST MASSIVE BOMBING CAMPAIGN IN MILITARY
HISTORY.
BUT IT ALSO INVOLVED GRUESOME TRENCH WARFARE.
THE RESULT, A STALEMATE OR AN AMERICAN VICTORY, DEPENDING ON
WHO IS WRITING THE HISTORY, WOULD MARK TURNING POINT IN THE
WAR.
AND FOR THOSE WHO FOUGHT AT KHE SANH, IT WAS A PIVOTAL POINT IN
THEIR LIVES, AS WELL.
ONE FORMER MARINE LANCE CORPORAL AT KHE SANH WAS DETERMINED NOT
TO LET THE MEMORIES OF HIS COMPATRIOTS FADE AWAY.
SO KEN RODGERS AND HIS WIFE, BETTY, EMBARKED ON A CREATIVE
JOURNEY TO PRODUCE THE DOCUMENTARY "BRAVO."
"IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION" WILL BE AIRING THE PROGRAM ON
NOVEMBER 10th, THE FIRST DAY OF THE UNITED STATES MARINES,
AND KEN AND BETTY, RESIDENTS OF EAGLE, IDAHO, JOIN ME TO TALK
ABOUT THEIR PASSION FOR THAT PROJECT AND ADVENTURE IN
FILM-MAKING, I AM PLEASED TO SAY WE HAVE ONE OF THE VETERANS IN
THE VIDEO, STEVE WIESE, A MARINE CORPORAL AND NOW LIVES IN
CALIFORNIA.
IT'S A PLEASURE TO HAVE HERE, AND THANKS FOR COMING ALL THAT
WAY TO BE HERE.
AND THANKS TO YOU FOR BEING HERE, AS WELL.
>>> FIRST, LET'S START WITH YOU, BETTY.
YOU ARE NOT A VETERAN KHE SANH, BUT THIS PROJECT IS YOUR BRAIN
CHILD.
TELL ME ABOUT HOW IT CAME ABOUT.
>> WELL, KEN AND I STARTED ATTENDING THE KHE SANH VETERAN'S
ANNUAL REUNIONS, AND AS I SAT AND LISTENED TO THE MEN,
REUNITED, TALKING ABOUT THEIR COMMON EXPERIENCE, IT OCCURRED
TO ME THAT, THAT THIS WAS HISTORY THAT, THAT, THAT WOULD
DISAPPEAR, IF SOMETHING WAS NOT DONE TO PRESERVE IT.
AND WE ALSO -- I HAD, I HAD -- WE HAD ALREADY LOST ONE OF THE
MEN FROM "BRAVO" COMPANY, JAKE, WHO IS MENTIONED IN THE FILM,
AND THEN WE KNEW THAT, THAT DAN HORTON WAS ILL WITH CANCER.
AND SO, WE FELT COMPELLED TO, TO MOVE FORWARD --
>> AND NO EXPERIENCE IN FILM-MAKING.
>> NONE AT ALL.
>> AND YOU KNOW, YOU TOLD ME WHEN WE WERE TALKING EARLIER
THAT, ACTUALLY, AS YOU WERE LEAVING KHE SANH, YOU LOOKED
DOWN, YES, AND YOU THOUGHT, THIS IS STORY.
>> RIGHT.
>> THAT WAS A LONG TIME AGO, AND YOU, YOU KNOW--
>> IT WAS LIKE, I LEFT KHE SANH, AND I SAID, THAT'S A HECK OF A
STORY, AND I NEED TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TELL IT, AND I TRIED TO
TELL IT FOR, FOR 40 SOME ODD YEARS AND, AND IT NEVER CAME OUT
RIGHT, AND PROBABLY, YOU NEEDED TO PERCOLATE FOR A WHILELY IN
THERE.
SO.
>> AS BETTY SAID, I THINK WE SHOULD MAKE A VIDEO, WHAT DID
YOU THINK.
>> YEAH, RIGHT, SURE.
IT WAS OKAY.
>> YOU TRIED WRITING A NOVEL?
>> YES, AND I HAD WRITTEN POETRY ABOUT IT, AND I HAD WRITTEN ET
SAYS, BUT IT DID NOT TELL THIS WHOLE STORY OF, OF --
EMOTIONALLY.
THE STORY.
>> AND WHY WAS IT SO IMPORTANT TO YOU TO, TO TELL?
>> WELL, BECAUSE, FOR A LOT OF REASONS.
I THINK THE HISTORY OF, OF THE HUMAN WASTE IS, IS FRAUGHT WITH
TALES OF WAR.
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE DO BEST IS MAKE WAR, AND ONE OF THE
MOST TERRIBLE THINGS, AND I THINK THAT, THAT THEY DID REALLY
NOT WANT TO TELL THEIR STORIES, AND I THOUGHT THAT WE HAD A VERY
INTERESTING TALE TO TELL ABOUT, ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS IN WAR.
AND WHAT HAPPENS AFTER WAR.
>> AND WHAT HAPPENS IN ONE, ONE SMALL UNIT?
>> THE SMALL UNIT?
>> YOU WERE PART THAT, A BIG PART OF IT, AND STEVE WIESE, AND
BETTY, YOU HAD SEEN STEVE, RIGHT, AT THE REUNION?
>> RIGHT.
>> AND TELL ME WHAT THOUGHT.
>> OF COURSE, YOU HEAR STORIES ABOUT EVERYONE, BUT, I KEPT
SEEING THIS, THIS TALL, BLONDE HEADED MAN WHO WAS WALKING
AROUND AND, AND SEEMED TO GARNER A LOT OF RESPECT FROM OTHER
PEOPLE.
AND I LEANED TO KEN ONE DAY, AND I SAID, WHO IS THIS GUY?
AND, AND KEN SAID, HE'S BEEN THROUGH EVERY BAD THING THAT
EVER HAPPENED TO "BRAVO" COMPANY IN THIS TIME, AND SURVIVED IT.
AND SO, THAT WAS, THAT WAS PART OF THE INSPIRATION FOR DOING THE
FILM, WAS TO TELL STEVE'S STORY, AS WELL.
>> NOW, ONLY, I THINK, WHAT, 14 MEN, PLUS YOU, ARE -- AGREED TO
BE INTERVIEWED.
WHY DID YOU WANT TO BE PART THIS PROJECT?
AND TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT ARE, ARE VERY, VERY DIFFICULT TO
DISCUSS.
>> WELL, WHEN KEN APPROACHED ME AND ASKED ME ABOUT, YOU KNOW,
DOING, IT MY FIRST REACTION WAS, A, I DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT, AND
B, I DIDN'T THINK THAT I HAD ANYTHING WORTH TALKING ABOUT,
AND HE TOLD ME, HE SAYS THINK ABOUT IT, AND HE TALKED TO ME,
YOU KNOW, TOMORROW.
AND THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT IT, THE MORE I THOUGHT ABOUT THESE
GUYS DESERVE SOME KIND OF RECOGNITION, YOU KNOW.
AND I FIGURED, YOU KNOW -- >> THESE GUYS, MEANING THE ONES
WHO DID NOT MAKE IT?
>> YES.
>> OK, THE ONES THAT, THAT DID NOT MAKE IT BACK, AND THERE WERE
TOO MANY THEM.
BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS MY, YOU KNOW, MY, MY DUTY AND MY HONOR,
IF I COULD SOMEHOW HELP PUT OUT TO THE PUBLIC THAT, THAT THESE
GUYS DIED, YOU KNOW, AND THEY DIED PROTECTING THIS COUNTRY,
AND, YOU KNOW, FOR OUR HONOR, AND THESE WERE INCREDIBLILY
BRAVE MEN.
>> AND -- >> SLASH BULLIES.
>> AND YOUNG, THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.
ONE OF THE THINGS I FOUND SO AS WELL, AND REALLY KIND OF, AS WE
SAY IN PRINT JOURNALISM, A NUT GRAPH, WHERE THE RECORDINGS YOU
HAD MADE FOR YOUR MOTHER, YOU KNOW, TO SEND HOME TO YOUR MOM,
WHICH INCLUDED PUTTING THE MICROPHONE IN FRONT OF SOME OF
THESE OTHER MEN, SOME WHO ARE NOT WITH US ANY MORE.
LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO ONE OF THOSE RECORDINGS.
>> WE WERE PLAYING, ONE DAY, EVERYBODY WAS BACK IN THE WAR.
>> I GUESS YOU CAN TELL BY THE GUYS HEARD SO FAR, THAT THEY ARE
QUITE BUNCH GUYS.
WE HAVE A BLEACHER, A JOKER AND A THIEF.
HAPPY, SAD.
>> A BIT OF EVERYTHING.
AND THE FIRST MAN WE HEARD, THE PREACHER, SO TO SPEAK, DID NOT
SURVIVE, DID NOT MAKE, IT BUT HAS, IN A WAY, BECAUSE OF THAT
RECORDING, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, AND I THINK THE RECORDINGS SHOW
THE DIVERSITY OF PEOPLE BROUGHT TOGETHER, CHILDREN, REALLY, IN A
WAY, AND HE'S SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE'LL HAVE A GREAT STORY TO TELL
WHEN WE COME BACK TO THE WORLD.
OF COURSE, YOU WERE IN THE WORLD, BUT IT DID NOT SEEM LIKE
YOU WERE IN THE WORLD BECAUSE IT WAS SUCH A FOREIGN PLACE.
>> WORLD, WAS A COMMON TERM FOR US OVER THERE.
WHERE WE WERE, THE WORLD WAS A DIFFERENT PLACE.
>> RIGHT.
>> NOW, ONE OF THE -- BETTY SAID, YOU SURVIVED A LOT OF, A
LOT OF THINGS.
AND A BIG PART OF YOUR FILM IS ABOUT SOMETHING CALLED "THE
GHOST PATROL."
AND WE SHOULD SAY THAT FOR BACKGROUND HERE, YOU WERE WHAT,
5,000, 6,000 MARINES -- SURROUND BY 20,000 --
>> THAT'S OPEN FOR DEBATE, ANYWHERE FROM 20 TO 45,000.
A LOT OF PEOPLE.
>> YOU WERE SURROUNDED, AND YOU WERE VERY, VERY CLOSE TO, TO THE
LINE.
>> RIGHT.
>> TO NORTH VIETNAM.
AND IN FACT, THERE IS THIS GREAT SCENE WHERE, THEY ARE SO CLOSE
TO YOU THAT YOU CAN HEAR THEM WITH A STETHOSCOPE, AMAZINGLY
CLOSE, AND YOU ARE SENT OUT ON A PATROL, RELATIVELY ROUTINE IF
ANYTHING CAN BE CALLED ROUTINE IN THAT SITUATION.
AND WHAT HAPPENS?
>> THE GHOST PATROL, BASICALLY, THEY KNEW, AS YOU MENTIONED,
THEY KNEW THAT WE WERE SURROUNDED.
THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE DIGGING TRENCHES, AND WE WERE,
BASICALLY, SUPPOSED TO GO OUT ON A RECON AND JUST KIND GET A FEEL
FOR WHERE, WERE THEY ACTUALLY DIGGING.
THEY KNEW THAT THEY WERE TUNNELING UNDER THE BASE.
>> IN NORTH VIETNAMESE.
>> YES, SO THE PATROL WAS A GO AND LOOK-SEE.
SEE WHAT THE SITUATION LOOKED LIKE.
GET A FEEL FOR WHAT WAS GOING ON.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE WALKED INTO AN AMBUSH, AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, A
PRETTY MASSIVE AMBUSH.
>> RIGHT, AND WE READ THE HISTORIES OF KHE SANH, WHAT
HAPPENED?
AND, AND YOU WERE THERE AND, AND LET'S TAKE A LISTEN TO WHAT
HAPPENED.
>> I WORKED MY WAY OUT BACK TO THE BASE.
WHEN I CAME IN, IT WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WHERE IS EVERYBODY.
YOU KNOW.
AND I JUST REMEMBER, I REMEMBER THE GUY SAYING, YOU ARE PRETTY
MUCH IT, YOU KNOW.
THERE IS NOT A WHOLE LOT.
AND WHEN I GOT BACK TO MY SQUAD AREA, SMITH, ARTHUR SMITH WAS IN
THE BUNKER AND I CAME IN AND, AND HE SAID, IT WAS IT.
CAN WE TAKE A BREAK A MINUTE.
>> IT'S STILL HARD TO TALK ABOUT AFTER ALL THESE YEARS, BUT YOU
WERE ONE OF JUST A VERY FEW SURVIVORS OF THAT AMBUSH.
>> YES.
>> AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT, THAT, AS I UNDERSTAND, GETS
THOUGHT ABOUT -- THERE IS NOT A DAY THAT GOES BY THAT SOMEHOW OR
THE OTHER -- >> NEVERLAND A DAY THAT GOES BY
THAT WE DON'T THINK ABOUT IT.
>> AND HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH WHAT WOULD BE THE SURVIVOR GUILT OF
BEING ONE OF THE FEW?
HOW HAVE COME TO THAT, FOR PEOPLE LISTENING, IN BEING IN AN
ACTION WHERE YOU SURVIVED.
>> I DON'T KNOW IF I WILL EVER COME TO DEAL WITH IT,
COMPLETELY.
I DO HAVE SURVIVOR'S GUILT.
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I SURVIVED, WHEN PRETTY MUCH
EVERYONE IN MY SQUAD WAS KILLED.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, I TRY TO DEAL WITH IT.
THE PROBLEM IS, COMBAT CHANGES.
WAR CHANGES.
COMBAT CHANGES PERMANENTLY.
AND, AND DEALING WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A DAILY THING.
IT DOES NOT GO AWAY.
I DON'T THINK THAT I WILL EVER UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, WHY I
SURVIVED.
>> ABOUT, YOU DID ASK FOR HELP, AND YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, THE V.A.
DOES HAVE PEOPLE THAT CAN, CAN ASSIST IN THIS PROCESS.
>> THE V.A., I WAS AMAZED, WHEN I WENT TO THE V.A., WHICH WAS
SIX, SEVEN YEARS AGO, I THINK, ORIGINALLY.
I DIDN'T HAVE MU FAITH IN GOING AND SPEAKING TO SOMEONE.
I DIDN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T REALLY BELIEVE IN
PSYCHIATRISTS OR ANY OF THAT.
AND BUT, WHEN I WENT TO THE V.A., THERE WAS A DR. KEENAN.
AND SHE WAS IN CHARGE OF THAT GROUP.
AND ABSOLUTELY AMAZING LADY ARE.
UNDERSTOOD MARINES, SOLDIERS, OR, YOU KNOW, SHE UNDERSTOOD
COMBAT.
SHE UNDERSTOOD WHAT WE WERE DEALING WITH, AND SHE PROBABLY
WAS THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE THAT EVER HAPPENED TO ME.
THE V.A. WAS, IS A REMARKABLE THING, AS FAR AS IF, IF YOU
HAVE, THEY NEED TO GO TO THE V.A., YOU KNOW.
I DIDN'T THINK THAT THEY WOULD UNDERSTAND.
I WALKED IN THERE GOING, YOU KNOW, AND WHEN I WALKED IN, NO
OFFENSE, BUT WHEN I WALKED IN AND SAW IT WAS A WOMAN, MY FIRST
THOUGHT WAS HOW IS SHE GOING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT I WENT THROUGH,
AND I WAS READY TO TURN AWAY AND WALK OUT.
I AM GLAD THAT I DIDN'T.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST MISTAKE MY LIFE
SO, THE V.A. HAS GOT HELP, AND THEY NEED TO GO IF THEY NEED IT.
>> AND IMPORTANT THAT STEVE WAS IN THE FILM, DID TALK ABOUT
THIS.
MUST HAVE BEEN DIFFICULT TO ASK THESE QUESTIONS.
YOU WERE NOT ON, ON THE -- PARDON ME, ON THE GHOST PATROL,
AND WE'LL TALK IN A MINUTE ABOUT ANOTHER ACTION THAT YOU WERE
PART.
BUT, HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT FOR YOU TO ASK, YOU DID THE
INTERVIEW, RIGHT?
>> IT WASN'T THAT DIFFICULT, YOU KNOW.
MORE SO THE PEOPLE WE INTERVIEWED, HAD SEEN THE
QUESTIONS AHEAD OF TIME, SO I THINK THAT, THAT THEY HAD AMPLE
TIME TO THINK ABOUT IT.
>> BUT STILL, WELLED UP.
>> YES, THEY WELLED UP.
AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THE ACT OF, OF ARTICULATING
THEIR EMOTIONS, JUST OPENED THEM UP AND OUT IT CAME, WHICH WAS
AMAZING TO ME.
TO SIT THERE AND WATCH THAT.
AND EXPERIENCE.
MAKING THAT PART OF THE FILM WAS AMAZING.
>> AND BETTY, YOU INTERVIEWED YOUR HUSBAND, RIGHT?
>> ALONG WITH MARK SPEAR, THE VIDEOGRAPHER.
>> WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?
DID HEAR STORIES THAT YOU HAD NOT HEARD BEFORE?
>> YES.
YES.
YES.
SO, HE REACTED THE SAME WAY.
YOU KNOW.
JUST OPENED UP IN A WAY THAT HE HAD NOT BEFORE.
>> AND WELL, AS I NEXT, THERE WAS ANOTHER ACTION, WHAT'S
CALLED PAY-BACK FOR WHAT OCCURRED, AND WE DON'T KNOW THE
EXACT NUMBERS OF HOW MANY DIED ON THE GHOST PATROL, BUT IT'S
CALLED THE GHOST PATROL BECAUSE SO MANY DID NOT COME BACK.
IT'S A NAME GIVEN TO IT LATER.
BUT, NOT MANY.
YOU WERE ONE OF -- >> THE GHOST PATROL KIND OF --
>> YOU, YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE -- THREE, THREE IN YOUR --
>> COUNTING MYSELF.
>> YEAH, RIGHT.
>> BUT THE GHOST PATROL PICKED UP, THE NAME BECAUSE SO MANY MEN
WERE LEFT ON THE BATTLEFIELD, AND HENCE, THE, THEY SAID THEY
ARE STILL WALKING THE BATTLEFIELD.
>> I SEE.
AND THEN THE PAYBACK DAY, A MONTH LATER, WAS WHEN YOU WENT
TO GO AND FRY AND GET THOSE, TRY AND GET THOSE MEN AND, AND
POTENTIALLY KILL SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT HAD KILLED THEM.
AND IT'S AN, IT'S INCREDIBLE, IN YOUR FILM, YOU DESCRIBE, IT WAS
BAYONETS.
SIX BAYONETS.
>> RIGHT.
A BAYONETTE CHARGE.
>> RIGHT.
>> AND THE ONLY OFFICIAL BAYONETTE CHARGE, I THINK, OF
THE VIETNAM WAR.
AND I MEAN, IT'S QUITE THE STUFF.
>> AND AGAIN, MANY LOST IN THAT, AS WELL.
>> RIGHT, WE LOST, I BELIEVE, THERE WERE 12KIAs BUT I THINK
THAT THERE ARE MORE PURPLE HEARTS ISSUED THAT DAY THAN MEN
THAT WENT ON THE PATROL.
SO, IT WAS SAVAGE, THE MOST AMAZING DAY OF MY LIFE.
AND I THINK ABOUT IT EVERY DAY.
AND, YOU KNOW, I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH NOT TO HAVE BEEN IN THE
WORST PARTS THAT DAY, BUT I WAS A WITNESS TO IT.
AND WHICH IS KIND HOW MY OLD VIETNAM EXPERIENCE WAS.
I WAS A WITNESS TO A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAPPENED TO OTHER
PEOPLE.
AND MAYBE THAT'S WHY I WANT TO TELL THE STORY.
>> AND I FORGOT TO ASK YOU, BUT IT'S REALLY INTERESTING, WHEN
YOU CRAWLED BACK, YOU KNOW, TO FIND OUT THAT YOU WERE ONE OF
THE FEW SURVIVORS, YOUWERE ONLY OUT MAYBE A QUARTER OF A MILE.
IT TOOK EIGHT OR NINE HOURS TO GET BACK.
>> CORRECT.
I MADE IT BACK THROUGH THE SHADOWS OF DARKNESS.
>> AND IT FIGURED YOU 20 YEARS OUT UNTIL YOU WERE IN THIS
THERAPY SESSION WHERE THAT WOMAN PULLED THAT OUT YOU.
>> RIGHT.
>> THAT FEELING TIME SLOWING DOWN, AND TIME SPEEDING UP, I
THINK, IS VERY WELL ELUCIDATED IN A PARTICULAR CLIP IN YOUR
FILM.
LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT.
>> AND WHEN CAME UP, I JUST SQUEEZED AND SHOT.
AND IT WAS THE ODDEST THING.
MY, MY INSTRUCTOR FROM THE RANGE IN CAMP PENDLETON WAS THERE
EXPLAINING TO ME ABOUT BREATHING AND SQUEEZING.
>> MY FIRST SHOT.
RIGHT IN THE HEAD.
RIGHT IN THE FOREHEAD.
>> I JUST HAD DONE SOMETHING THAT I REALLY DIDN'T WISH TO DO.
>> SO, THERE WAS A LOT GOING ON THERE, AND ONE THING, YOU HAD A
PROFESSIONAL EDITOR, WORKING ON THIS, WHO DECIDED TO, TO DO
THAT.
TALK ABOUT THAT.
>> HE'S A VIETNAM VETERAN AND, AND HIS ENTIRE CAREER HAS BEEN,
HAS BEEN FILM AND, AND HE HAS -- HE'S AN AWARD-WINNING EDITOR,
WHO, WHO FOUND US, AND WANTED TO HELP TELL THE STORY.
AND, AND TO, CREATED A MASTERPIECE IN MY MIND, JUST AN
INCREDIBLE MAN WITH WONDERFUL TALENT.
AND HE UNDERSTOOD THE STORY THAT WE WANTED TO FELL, AND HE
UNDERSTOOD THE -- HE HAD THE SAME SENSIBILITIES THAT WE DID
ABOUT HOW TO TELL IT, AND -- >> AND HE'S SHOWING WHAT'S GOING
ON IN THE MIND, AS, AS ALL OF THAT IS HAPPENING.
THIS WEIRDNESS WITH TIME.
AND HE CHOSE THAT MAN TO DO, TO DEAL WITH, I THINK, I HAVE NOT
TALKED TO HIM, BECAUSE FRANK, IS, IS AN INTERESTING CHARACTER.
HE'S VERY CATHOLIC, AND HE DID NOT WANT TO SHOOT ANYBODY, AND
AS YOU HEAR THAT, THAT IS HIS FIRST SHOT EVER.
HE REALIZES THAT HE HAS TO KILL SOMEBODY.
WHY DID YOU THINK IT WAS IMPORTANT TO INCLUDE HIM IN THE
FILM?
HE'S A PASSIVIST.
HE TALKS ABOUT HOW HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN WAR.
>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT, THAT THERE IS A WIDE VARIETY
OPINIONS, AND POINTS OF VIEW ON COMBAT AND, AND THERE WERE A LOT
OF GUYS, I THINK, IN VIETNAM LIKE FRANK.
I WENT TO HIGH SCHOOL WITH A GUY LIKE, LIKE IS A PASS
ENVIRONMENTALIST.
AND HE SWORE HE WOULD NEVER KILL ANYBODY, AND HE'D BEEN OVER
THERE SIX WEEKS AND SHOT SOME PEOPLE.
I THINK THAT'S STORY THAT IS PROBABLY COMMON THROUGHOUT
COMBAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY OF US WANT TO KILL ANYBODY.
>> RIGHT.
>> BUT, HE WAS, HE WAS -- HE WAS PARTICULARLY DIDN'T WANT TO.
>> RIGHT, BUT, HE DID NOT WANT TO, BUT HE DID BECAUSE THEY WERE
KILLING HIS, PEOPLE, AS HE SAYS, IN THE FILM.
AND HIS PEOPLE WERE MORE IMPORTANT THAN HIS, HIS DESIRE
NOT TO KILL SOMEBODY.
>> NOW, HE ALSO IS A BIT CONTROVERSIAL AMONG SOME OF THE,
SOME OF THE VETERANS BECAUSE, HE BELIEVES THAT YOU WERE, YOU WERE
DEFEATED THERE AND, AND SAYS SO.
THAT, THAT -- >> YES.
>> HE SAID, WE GOT WHIPPED, BUT I THINK HE'S MORE -- I THINK HE
BELIEVES THAT, THAT WE GOT WHIPPED BECAUSE THE UNITED
STATES PEOPLE, THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED
STATES WERE NOT INTERESTED IN PURSUING THE ACTIONS THAT WERE
NECESSARY TO WIN A WAR.
I DON'T THINK THAT FRANK WOULD SAY THAT ANY MARINES GOT WHIPPED
OVER THERE.
YOU KNOW.
>> A LARGER POINT.
THE BASE WAS, WAS ULTIMATELY, ABANDONED.
>> CORRECT.
>> AND THE FRUSTRATION OF THAT COMES THROUGH, IN THE
DOCUMENTARY.
HOW DID YOU FEEL AFTER, YOU KNOW, SURVIVING BOTH THE GHOST
PATROL AND, AND THE PAYBACK TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, TO RETREAT,
ESSENTIALLY, AND TO HAVE THAT BASE DESTROYED?
>> I WAS OUTRAGED.
I WAS UPSET.
I WAS LIKE, WHAT WAS THE POINT ALL THE GUYS DYING?
YOU KNOW, IT MADE IT SEEM, SEEM LIKE IT WAS LESSEN, IT LESSENED
THE, THE IMPORTANCE 69 SITUATION.
>> AND IT'S NEVER REALLY BEEN CLEAR WHAT, WHAT, WHAT THE, THE
PURPOSE OF, HOLDING KHE SANH WAS, YOU KNOW, HEAR A LOT OF
THINGS, AND PART OF IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN, AS I MENTIONED IN MY
INTRODUCTION, IT WAS THE LARGEST DISPLAY OF AIR POWER, BOMBING,
YOU KNOW, 2,500, B-52, 20,000 IN TOTAL, SO IT COULD HAVE BEEN TO
SHOW THE FIRE POWER THAT WE HAD.
IT'S REALLY STILL UNCLEAR WHAT --
>> IT WAS NOT NECESSARILY TO SHOW THE FIRE POWER BUT TO USE
THE FIRE POWER THAT WE HAD.
AND WE WERE THERE, I THINK, TO SUPPOSEDLILY, TO INTERDISTRICT A
MAIN BRANCH OF THE HO CHI MINH TRAIL, WHICH I DON'T THINK THAT
WE EVER DID, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU.
I THINK THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO, BEFORE YOU THEY CAME AND
WENT WHEN THEY WANTED TO, AND WHERE THEY WANTED TO, I BELIEVE.
NVA, WHEN I SAY THAT.
>> SO, WAS IT WORTH IT?
SOMETHING YOU ARE STILL THINKING ABOUT.
>> I DON'T KNOW.
I HAVE A HARD TIME SAYING IT WAS WORTH, IT BUT I HAVE A HARD TIME
SAYING IT WAS NOT.
>> IT'S A HARD QUESTION TO ANSWER.
>> EXACTLY.
AND ALL THOSE PEOPLE THAT DIED THERE, WE KNEW THOSE, THOSE
BOYS, AND, YOU KNOW, AND IT WAS NOT WORTH IT FOR THEM.
SO, I DON'T KNOW, I COULDN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
>> AND WELL, I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT COMING HOME.
BECAUSE YOU TALK ABOUT IT IN THE FILM, AND IT'S SOMETHING THAT,
THAT, YOU KNOW, HAPPENED TO YOU, WHICH WE HAVE READ ABOUT IN THE
PAPERS, AND CERTAINLY, I WAS ALIVE DURING THE TIME.
AND YOU WERE NOT GREETED VERY WELL.
>> NO.
>> WHEN YOU CAME HOME.
>> NO.
>> AND IN FACT, WHAT HAPPENED?
TELL WHAT HAPPENED.
>> I FLEW INTO EL TORO, AND THEY HAD A, A 15, 20-MINUTE SESSION
SAYING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BACK IN THE WORLD.
AND THAT WE CAN'T, YOU KNOW, WE CAN'T GO AROUND AND BE CRAZY AND
SHOOT PEOPLE, AND WE HAD TO, YOU KNOW, BE A LITTLE MORE
CIVILIZED.
AND BASICALLY, THAT WAS IT AT THE TIME.
IT WAS JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, LOOK, YOU KNOW, SEE LATER.
SO WHEN I WAS LEAVING, AS I WAS LEAVING THE BUILDING TO GO OUT,
THEY HAD A, A CHAIN-LINK FENCE SET UP, AND THERE WERE A BUNCH
OF PROTESTER, 40 OR 50 PROTESTERS OUT THERE.
AND AS I WALKED OUT, AND WAS LEAVING, THEY STARTED CALLING
ME, KILLER, AND THROWING PAPER AND TRASH AT ME, AND ONE YOUNG
GIRL, WHEN I SAY YOUNG, I WILL SAY MY AGE, YOU KNOW, I WAS 20,
I THINK, AT THAT TIME.
AND SHE JUST, YOU KNOW, HAD HER TIRNTION UP THROUGH THE FENCE
AND STARTED SCREAMING THAT I WAS BABY KILLER.
AND IT REALLY BOTHERED ME.
SO I JUST -- I CAN REMEMBER WALKING UP TO THE FENCE AND
SAYING, A LOT OF GOOD MEN DIED TO GIVE THE RIGHT TO SAY THAT.
AND I WALKED OFF.
I LEARNED QUICKLY WHEN I GOT BACK TO, TO NOT TALK ABOUT
VIETNAM.
AND NOT TALK ABOUT THE WAR.
AND, YOU KNOW, SO, I FOUND OUT LATER, WE DID NOT TALK ABOUT IT.
>> I WOULD LIKE TO ROLL A CLIP FROM YOUR FILM ABOUT SOME OTHER
REACTIONS UPON COMING HOME.
>> TURNED ME INTO A DRUNK, OR I TURNED MYSELF INTO DRUNK, I
DON'T KNOW.
BUT, IT ATE AWAY AT ME.
AND IT WAS, YOU KNOW, JUST THE EXPERIENCE, I DON'T KNOW, THEY
CALL IT PTSD OR WHATEVER, LACK OF SLEEP.
JUST CAN'T SLEEP.
YOU CAN'T HAVE A RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIPS DON'T LAST.
YOU KNOW.
THERE IS A LOT OF STRIFE IN THE FAMILY.
NOBODY KNOWS.
NOBODY UNDERSTANDS.
NOBODY WANTS TO HEAR WHAT'S GOING ON WITH YOU.
IT'S LIKE, YOUR FATHER NEVER TALKED ABOUT THE WAR, AND I SEE
NO REASON FOR YOU TO.
>> I KNOW FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS, STILL TO THIS DAY,
WHEN I WAKE UP IN THE MORNING, BEFORE I GET MY EYES OPENED, AND
I GET MY FIRST CUP OF COFFEE, WHEN I COME OUT OF THAT BED, I'M
IN THAT TRENCH.
THERE WERE BODIES UP TO MY KNEECAPS, EVERY MORNING, AND IT
DOES NOT GO AWAY, AND THAT'S OK.
I HAVE COME TO, TO ACCEPT THAT.
THAT'S OK.
I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO FORGET ALL OF THAT STUFF.
>> AND I ASSUME THAT THAT'S PART OF THE REASON MADE THIS FILM.
>> RIGHT.
>> NOT TO FORGET IT.
>> WE ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO FORGET IT.
>> AND MAJOR BUSINESS COMING HOME FROM WAR.
MANY, MANY YEARS WHERE, WHERE VIETNAM VETERANS WERE IN THE
CLOSET, AS YOU MENTIONED, DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT.
AND THE PEOPLE ARE NOW MORE, AND WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS LAST
NIGHT.
WHAT DO YOU THINK CHANGED IT?
>> I THINK 9/11 CHANGED IT.
IT CHANGED IT FOR ME.
IT CHANGED IT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE I KNOW.
I THINK IT -- MOST OF US HAD SUBDUED OUR EMOTIONS, AND THAT
ATTACK ON THE BUILDINGS WAS LIKE SOMEBODY SHOOTING AT US, AND IT
BROUGHT BACK FOR ME -- FOR MONTHS, I HAD PTSD SYMPTOMS THAT
I THOUGHT I HAD GOTTEN RID.
AND I ALSO THINK THAT, THAT IT GAVE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC A
SECOND CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE VIETNAM VETERAN WITH A DIFFERENT
EYE.
AND SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE DID OUR JOB, AND WE DID IT WELL.
EVEN THOUGH IT WAS AN EXTREMELY UNPOPULAR WAR.
>> YOU KNOW THE STORY, AND WHAT DID YOU LEARN THAT YOU DID NOT
KNOW MAKING THIS?
WHAT SURPRISED YOU?
>> WELL, A LOT OF THINGS SURPRISED ME, AND A LOT OF
THINGS SURPRISE ME, AS TO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MEN THAT, THAT I
THOUGHT THAT I KNEW EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENED TO THE "BRAVO"
COMPANY, AND I FOUND OUT, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF INTIMATE,
PERSONAL EXPERIENCES MEN, REALLY SURPRISED ME.
>> AND HOW THEY OPENED UP?
>> HOW THEY OPENED UP.
AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THEM?
>> AND WHAT DID TAKE AWAY FROM THIS EXPERIENCE?
WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THE MAKING OF THIS IN THE WEB EXTRA, BUT,
AS WE CONCLUDE, WHAT DID YOU LEARN?
>> IN THE INTERVIEWS AND GETTING TO KNOW THESE PEOPLE BETTER, ONE
OF THE THINGS THAT REALLY STANDS OUT IS HOW THE VIETNAM VETERANS
AS A WHOLE DON'T WANT ANY OTHER VETERAN TO EVER EXPERIENCE WHAT
THEY DID WHEN THEY CAME HOME, AND THEY WORKED VERY HARD TO
MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
AND I JUST THINK THAT THAT'S REALLY GENEROUS FOR THEM.
>> VERY INTERESTING, AND THE REACTION HAS BEEN GOOD, AS
YOU'VE BEEN TOYING THIS AROUND, AND WE'LL BE AIRING THE FILM ON
THE 10th, NOVEMBER 10th, THE ANNIVERSARY OF THE FOUNDING OF
THE MARINES.
SO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
UNFORTUNATELY, THAT'S ALL THE TIME THAT WE HAVE.
WE'LL HAVE A NICE WEB EXTRA THAT PEOPLE CAN LOOK UP, AND I'VE
BEEN LISTENING TO DISCUSSION ABOUT THE DOCUMENTARY "BRAVO,"
ABOUT THE SIEGE OF KHE SANH AND THE VIETNAM WAR.
FOR MORE INFORMATION ON THAT PROGRAM CHECK OUT THE "DIALOGUE"
WEBSITE.
GO TO IDAHOPTV.ORG.
AND CLICK ON "DIALOGUE."
FOR "DIALOGUE," I'M MARCIA FRANKLIN.
THANKS FOR TUNING IN.
AND THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
Captioning Performed By LNS Captioning www.LNScaptioning.com
>>> PRESENTATION OF "DIALOGUE" ON "IDAHO PUBLIC TELEVISION" IS
MADE POSSIBLE THROUGH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE LAURA
MOORE CUNNINGHAM FOUNDATION.
COMMITTED TO FULFILLING THE MOORE'S FAMILY LEGACY BUILDING
THE GREAT STATE OF IDAHO.
>>> CHECK OUT OUR WEBSITE,