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>>ELAINE DIDIER: Good evening ladies and gentlemen and welcome. It is a great pleasure to welcome
you to this lecture on behalf of the Wallenberg endowment committee and the Rackham School
of Graduate Studies which oversees the Wallenberg fund. My name is Elaine Didier and I am an
Associate Dean here at the graduate school and it is my distinct honor to have the opportunity
to work with the Wallenberg committee and to have the pleasure of sponsoring this particular
event. This is the fifth annual Wallenberg Lecture to be presented at the University
of Michigan. The Wallenberg Endowment was created in 1985 through the intensive energy
and effort of individuals committed to recognize and honor the memory and contributions of
Raoul Wallenberg and I'm pleased to say that many members of the endowment are here
with us this evening. Individuals selected to receive the Wallenberg Medal and present
the lecture are noted for their outstanding humanitarianism, heroism, courage, integrity,
pursuit of human rights and resistance to oppression. As noted in your program, previous
recipients of the prestigious Wallenberg medal have included Nobel laureate Eli Wiesel, a
Holocaust survivor, Yan Karsky, a courier for the Polish underground resistance, Helen
Suisman, a long time South African legislator and crusader against apartheid and only last
April we were very honored to have with us his Holiness, the 14th Lama of Tibet. This
evening we are here to recognize and learn from the example of Miep Gies who helped to
shelter Anne Frank and her family from the Nazis. Most of us here today will have read
The Diary of Anne Frank sometime in our youth and I'm delighted to see so many here this
evening that are studying it right now. There is another book worth reading. Miep Gies's
own book, titled: Anne Frank Remembered, which was published in 1987. Her very warm and personal
story places in broader context the events of the time and provides a vivid and most
powerful perspective. Members of the University community and the Wallenberg selection committee
are delighted to have an audience of this magnitude with us this evening to share in
this extraordinary event. At this time it is my pleasure to produ—to introduce Professor
Irene Butter of the School of Public Health. She is not only an active member both the
Wallenberg Endowment and selection committees but was also a vital force in the initial
effort to establish the Wallenberg Lecture and Medal here at the University of Michigan.
Professor Butter.
[APPLAUSE]
>>IRENE BUTTER: Good evening. Miep Gies, President Duderstadt, Wallenberg donors and friends,
welcome...to everyone. It is a source of deep gratitude...it is a source of deep gratification
to honor our fifth Wallenberg medalist, Miep Gies who sheltered Anne Frank and her extended
family in Nazi-occupied Amsterdam. I am extremely pleased that she was able to make the long
journey to be with us today and her presence has a special personal meaning for me.
In my opinion Miep Gies is the perfect Wallenberg recipient, Wallenberg Medal recipient, because
one of its main intentions is to honor ordinary people who have done extraordinary things.
Indeed, Miep's actions were extraordinary. Not only fifty years ago but also in their
enduring impact. If it were not for her, the world would never have met Anne Frank. Like
Anne Frank, I was born in Germany, emigrated with my family to the Netherlands in the 1930s
then suffered the German occupation and struggled for day-to-day survival. Anne and I were roughly
the same age, lived in the same neighborhood in Amsterdam and had mutual friends. While
her family went into hiding, mine did not. But ultimately we ended up in the same concentration
camp, Wergenbelsen, however, with different fates. Anne's father survived, while mine
did not and Anne's life ended. Mine continued. During the time that Miep Gies helped protect
the Frank family, she was not in a strategic position to do so. She was not a diplomat,
a consul, a government official, a border guard, a factory owner or any other position
of power at—or influence. Miep was a high-level office worker in Mr. Frank's food product
company. And over time she became a dedicated employee and a loyal family friend. Why did
Miep take on the formidable responsibility of sheltering the Frank family? Sometimes
people who perform heroic acts for a variety of motives: ideological, out of defiance,
need for recognition, profit motive and the like. In the case of Miep, none of these were
apparent. Instead she acted at great personal risk to do what was right, decent and just.
She preserved the lives of eight people over a considerable period of time, more than two
years, because to do otherwise was not considered an option. She acted out of integrity and
inconsonance with the essence of her being. My hope and wish is that Miep has received
as much reward from the way she lived her life as we have from her shining example.
Miep is known as the person who helped protect the Frank family and it is appropriate to
acknowledge what her role entailed. First, she provided protection, shelter, food and
to the best of her ability she took care of all of their material needs. Also, for the
family in hiding, Miep was one of the few links with the outside world and she was their
main source of hope and of cheer. And even after the family was betrayed and arrested,
her role still continued. It was Miep who climbed those attic stairs one more time:
she found Anne's writings scattered on the floor, gathered them quickly and stored them
away for Anne's expected return. In doing so she preserved Anne's diary, which has
deeply touched the lives of people all over the world and continues to do so. And thus,
Miep enabled the fulfillment of Anne's dearest wish. And I quote from her diary, April 4
1944, when she wrote, 'I want to continue to live even after my death.' And now to
Wallenberg. Each year on this occasion we pay tribute, validate and reaffirm Raoul Wallenberg
for his courageous acts and heroic leadership during World War II. Because Wallenberg is
one of the most illustrious alumni of this University, and because of the lasting need
for creative leadership and for positive role models for our youth, the University of Michigan
established an enduring vehicle for celebrating and emulating Wallenberg's remarkable
accomplishments. This vehicle includes three elements: first, a medal awarded to a humanitarian
of international stature whose work reflects the spirit and essence of the Wallenberg legacy,
and today this is Miep. Second, a lecture delivered by the medallist and third; a remembrance
of the Wallenberg story as a bridge to the medallist, whose own humanitarian contributions
receive recognition. Raoul Wallenberg was born in 1912 into one of Sweden's most highly
placed families, whose members included diplomats, financiers, bankers, bishops, artists and
professors. For valid reasons, Wallenberg's relatives chose the University of Michigan
as the most suitable of American universities for Raoul's advanced education. From 1931-1935
he studied on this campus where he completed an undergraduate degree in architecture, which
he earned with honors. After graduation, Wallenberg returned to Sweden and embarked on a career
in banking and finance, which led him to work in different parts of the world in the late
1930's such as South Africa, Palestine, a number of European countries. His first
exposure to Nazi atrocities committed against the Jews took place in Heifa, where while
in employment with a bank he witnessed the arrival of large groups of Jewish immigrants
who were forced to leave their native countries. A few years later he became junior partner
to a Hungarian Jew in the European Trading Company and this new position also required
frequent travel within Europe and in this way Wallenberg encountered many uprooted Jewish
families. These wartime experiences combined with his citizenship of neutral country, his
family background and other personal attributes, qualified Wallenberg to be appointed as a
Swedish diplomat in 1944 with a special assignment. Namely, to protect from execution the only
substantial Jewish population still remaining in Europe, the Jews in Budapest. During a
brief six months in Budapest from July 1944 'til January of 1945, Wallenberg made his
mark on history. Here, he rescued tens of thousands of Jews from Nazi execution with
boldness, with defiance, with persistence and enormous courage. Clearly he embraced
his mission with utmost dedication and vigor. The tactics he used including false protective
passports, called Schutz-Passes, and the safe-houses, which were shelters for Jews that were declared
Swedish property, were innovative and daring. Moreover, Wallenberg is said to have performed
his rescue operation almost single-handedly. Thus providing a supreme example that no matter
how formidable the odds, one person can make a difference. What Wallenberg demonstrated
almost fifty years ago is every bit as applicable today. One person can make a
difference in the struggle for a better world and this is why the Wallenberg story is to
be celebrated and perpetuated on this campus each year. It symbolizes defiance in exposing
tyranny, fortitude in defense of justice and human dignity, courage in the midst of a world
which was trembling in fear and steadfastness when virtually everyone was apathetic and
silent. It gives us deep gratification to think that during Wallenberg's
formitive years, when he was an undergraduate on this campus, it is this University which
helped shape the foundation for the monumental acts that followed. And thus, our celebration
of Wallenberg's heroism on this campus is intended as a lasting inspiration to each
of us, that we too can be that one person who makes a difference in creating a better
world. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
Now, I'd like to introduce President Duderstadt who will introduce Miep Gies and present the
Wallenberg Medal. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
>>PRESIDENT DUDERSTADT: Let me joining -- join my colleagues in welcoming you to a very special
evening each year, in the University's calendar. An evening where we remember the extraordinary
achievements of an alumnus of this University, Raoul Wallenberg, but beyond that honoring
individuals that demonstrated the same courage, the same commitment, the beliefs, the humanitarian
principles that have characterized this extraordinary person. Before introducing the, this year's
recipient of the Raoul Wallenberg medal, let me first introduce Professor Ralph uh, Wolfsfinkle,
from the University of Cape Town and noted historian on the Holocaust and an expert on
Anne Frank.
[APPLAUSE]
This evening we are to honor, with the Wallenberg Medal, Miep Gies. Widely known and admired
as Professor Butters indicated for her efforts in helping to hide the Frank family from the
Nazis during the second World War beyond that and protecting and making available
to our culture, The Diary of Anne Frank. Her papers, which have continued
to remind us and always lodge in our memory, the great horror of that time but
as well the courage that it represented. Miep Gies is modest about her fame, as she puts
it herself, 'I am not a hero, my story is a story of very ordinary people during extraordinary
times. It is for all of us ordinary people all over the world to see to it that times
like this never come again.' Her war time experiences are movingly recounted in her
book, Anne Frank Remembered: The Story of the Woman Who Helped to Hide the Frank Family.
It gives me great pleasure, it is indeed an honor to present the Raoul Wallenberg Medal
to Miep Gies and to present her to you.
[APPLAUSE]
>>MIEP GIES: Ladies, gentlemen and children. I am deeply moved by the warm welcome you
extend to me and I am very grateful for all courtesies. For me the best thing, however,
is to meet people who share my views about our human duty to help those who are in trouble.
Ladies and gentlemen, please, do not look up to me, it does embarrass me very much.
Kindly consider yourself to be my equal in providing support all who live in fear and
pain. People often ask why I found the courage to help the Franks. Yes, it certainly requires
some courage, some discipline and also some sacrifice to do your human duty. But, that
is true for so many things in life. Careful discretion always surprises me. Because I
simply could not think of doing anything else, so why these questions? Step by step I started
to understand that many people wonder why they should assist people who are in trouble,
because when we are young we are told by our parents that if we behave all right everything
in life will work out fine. So, people who have a problem must have made a serious mistake.
Why should we then help them? It would be a form of social injustice to help them. Those
people should receive what they deserve. During the war you often had people say, 'The Jews
would never be in such a deep trouble if they had not done something wrong.' I knew that
many people in Holland were thinking that way, so I decided not to tell my friends and
family about my decision to help the Franks. Because [INDECIPHERABLE 22:26] I said all
of them would say that Jews should sel—should, should solve their own problems and that it
was unwise to risk my life for people who did not deserve that. Ladies and gentlemen,
if you ever decide to help people who are in trouble you need the courage to face the
opposition of many of your friends and family members. They might even be your own...with
you. When I wrote my book...it is published in English...I felt it should not be written
in Dutch because I did not want to provoke those who had not helped the Jews. So, it
was not just the German I was afraid of. No, also my own neighbors could go to the police.
Not because they were Nazis, no. Simply because they did not like what I was doing. An important
reason that I helped was because I do not believe that people who are in trouble have
always done something wrong. I knew that from my own life. I am born an Austrian girl. I
grew up in Vienna and lived through the first World War that started when I was five years.
I was always a good girl at home and at school my mother said. But I remember that at this
age of ten I did not get enough food. I still feel the pain of being hungry, always. I still
remember the shock that I had to leave my home in Vienna, to go to Holland in order
to release—to receive from a serious lung disease. Did I deserve that? No. I was innocent.
...So very young I discovered that you could be in trouble without that you could be blamed
for it. I felt the same to be true for the Jews. Therefore, whatever others would like
to say, I had to help. There was also another reason to do such. Many children grew up in
families where they are told to mind their own business only. When those children become
adults they are inclined to look the other way if people ask for help. I myself lived
very social-minded Dutch foster parents. They had already five children themself and had
to live from—a from a modest salary. But still took me, a sick child, in their home.
Whatever they had they would always share with others. It made a deep impression on
me. It made me feel I should do the same in my life. When I stand here in front of you,
I am happy to meet with people who do a very important job. Many of you are professors
teaching young people. Many of you are parents too. In my opinion, education is the best
way to improve our world. Children should learn from us that people often do not get
in life what they deserve. We should tell them that for instance most victims of poverty
and discrina-discrimination are innocent. That, therefore we must help. We should also
tell our children that they should always share with others. And that caring about their
own business only that lead to the death of six million innocent Jews, among them, Anne
Frank. I feel very strongly that we should not wait for our political leaders to make
this world a better place. No, we should make this happen now in our homes and at our schools.
We sometimes hear about people that deny the Holocaust. Even people that carry the title,
Professor. Prevent that the destruction of Jews never took place. I wonder, why did this
professor study themself, because the evidence is overwhelming. We should always [1]remember
the victims of the Holocaust. We should never forget them. I myself always think of Edith
Frank, her daughters Margot and Anne. The family from them, was Peter and a dentist
from Desaulle. These were the names Anne gave them. The true names were Hambells and Pfeifer.
Also the helpers got other names from Anne, except for me. Why did she decide to use my
own name? The answer I will never receive, but it touches me very much. It give me the
feeling that she felt too close with me to alter my name. Including Young, my husband,
we were a total of five helpers, Eli, Gohers and Clara. Each had an own task. In the morning
I had is first one to enter the hiding place in order to pick up the shopping list. When
I came in , nobody speak. Just standing in line and waiting for me to begin. An awful
moment for me because it reflected the dependence on us, the helpers. They would silently look
up to me, except for Anne, who in a cheerful tone used to say, 'Hello, Miep,' and,
'What is the news?' Her mother disliked this very strongly and I knew that the other
people in hiding would afterwards blame Otto and Edith for their, what would call proof
of a too liberal education. What we must stroke about--what we struck most about Anne was
her curiosity. She asked me always about everything that went on outside and was also extremely
charming girl. I say girl, but talking to her gave the surprising impression of speaking
to a much older person. No wonder, because the special condition in the hiding place
made her change very quickly from a child to a young adult. I did not pay much attention
to this because there were all the other things, like the danger and my daily care for eleven
people. Me and my husband ate in the attic and also a student, no Jews, wanted by the
Germans and who we were hiding in our home. He survived. Every year on the fourth of August
I close the curtains of my home and do not answer the doorbell and the telephone. It
is the day that my Jewish friends were taken away to the death camp. I have never overcome
that shock. Why did these wonderful people meet such a cruel fate. I loved and admired
them so much. During more than two years they had to live eight people in a small place.
They had little food, they were not allowed to go out, not one day. They could not speak
to their friends and relatives. On top of that came the fear. Every hour of the day
and night I have no word to describe these people who were still always friendly and
grateful. Yes, I do have a word: heroes. True heroes and they were. People sometimes call
me a hero. I do not want that because I told you already that those in hiding were the
bravest people. I also don't like it because people should never think that you have to
be a very special person to help those who need you. I myself, am just an innocent woman,
I simply had no choice. I could foresee many, many sleepless nights and a miserable life
if I had refused to help the Franks. Yes, I have wept countless times when I think of
my dear friends, but still I am happy that these are no tears of remorse for refusing
to assist those who were in trouble. Even if help might fail, it is better to try than
to do nothing. ...I'm grateful that I could save Anne's diary. When I found it, scattered
all over the floor, I stole it. I decided to store it away in order to give it back
to Anne when I should, when she should return. I wanted to see her smile, receiving the diary.
I wanted to hear her say, 'Oh, Miep! My diary, wonderful!' But after a terrible
time of waiting and hoping, word came that Anne had died. At that moment, I went to Otto
Frank, Anne's father, the only one of the family who had survived. With the words, 'this
is what Anne has left.' Can you understand how this man looked at me? Lost his wife,
lost his two children...he had a diary. I pushed him out of my office. 'Please, go
to your private office.' After an hour he phoned me, 'Miep, I don't want to see
anyone.' My answer was, 'I have taken care of it.' Otto in turn gave the diary of Anne to the
world and I feel that this was the right decision. We often wonder about the true meaning of
Anne's writings. I think it depends on the s—situation of the person reading it. Young
people may look at Anne as somebody who in a wonderful way described the same feelings,
the same fears, the same questions these young people have. Anne becomes a friend because
they don't feel so lonely anymore. Adults who read the diary may be surprised about
Anne's—Anne's wisdom. Even Otto Frank had no idea about the deep thoughts of Anne.
He always said to me after the World War, 'Miep, her deep thoughts, her inner self
was also for me, a closed book.' He loved Anne dearly. He must even have the feeling
that he looked at her as just a child. So, she kept her ideas for herself, afraid that
she would not be taken seriously. So what about our children? Do we really respect them
and do we really listen to them. In our room they may feel just as lonely as once, Anne.
Other people who read the diary may be in trouble and feel depressed, almost unable
to carry on their lives. Then they realize that Anne was in deep trouble too but still
wrote in her diary with ideas and hopes for the future. For these people Anne might be
a stimulus to never give up. I myself found in the diary remarks that give me a lot to
think. Once Anne wrote about that simple, little word: why? Anne admits that she herself
always asked why? Although people got very tired from all her questions and often didn't
know the answer themselves. Anne writes that she therefore started to ask herself why and
surprisingly often found the answer within her inner self. Anne considered it's wise
to always ask yourself, 'why?' in all you do. Because people search their minds
for the reason of their action it will make them more honest about themselves. Anne feels
this a good way for children to educate themselves, then they will understand their mistakes much
better than any, any punishment ever would do. Otto urged me to read the diary but in
the beginning I refused. I was afraid. I had always an excuse because I had lost the way
in my life. I could not except that reality; it was too much for me. Still more pain. But
after the third...education of the diary, Mr. Frank said to me, 'And now, you read
it. You insult me and Anne.' But when I finally started to read it, all my dear Friends
came back to me. I heard their voices, their laughs, their arguments. It was really wonderful.
Of course, I wept a lot while reading but basically I felt happy. Anne and all the other
people were with me again. Thank you, Anne. I thought, 'you gave me one of the finest
gifts life every gave me.' I have been asked several times to give my side of the Anne
Frank story. I always refuse that because I felt that Anne's diary told everything
we should know. But then I met Alison Gold, an author from Los Angeles. She asked me the
same question but also said something I had not thought of myself. 'Anne,' she said,
'is telling her story from her side of the hiding place, and you, Miep, should tell how
it was outside at the time in Amsterdam.' Still I wondered would I should be the one
to do that because many other can do—can tell about the life in Holland in those days
and about the Jews they helped.
[MICROPHONE STATIC SIX SECONDS]
'That is true,' Alison said, 'but how do I know I'm told the truth? Your story
I can check against Anne's diary.'
[LIGHT LAUGHTER]
And so I gave in and Alison helped me to get everything on paper in the proper way. It
wasn't an easy decision, believe me. But reading the many letters daily letters I receive
I feel it was the right one. As I told you, I am born an Austrian girl. For a long time
I was deeply ashamed of my home country. My biggest joy was on the day that I became a
Dutch citizen. Then I felt free to hate all Germans and Austrians because of what they
did—they had done to my Jewish friends. Right after the war, the business of Otto
Frank, where I worked as a secretary, was still carried out in the old building. After
the date—after the diary was published, people start-started to visit the place, also
Germans and Austrians. Because my boss knew about my blind hate towards them, he would
never let me near them.
[LAUGHTER]
He shut the door when the Germans came in my office. But one day, fate called me, and
how. When I suddenly discovered that I faced Germans I jumped at them, calling them everything
I could think of. I was furious. The visitors were clearly afraid of me
[LAUGHTER]
and backed off to the wall. I also saw that the wives were taken a position in front of
the husbands.
[LIGHT LAUGHTER]
Yes, trying to protect them from a violent outburst. I really had my go at them. But
then, I was told that these German people had been in concentration camps themselves
for opposition[2] to Hitler. I did not know where to look, and how to make good for it.
...At that moment I began to understand the wisdom of Otto Frank, who always said that
we should never lump people together but always look at each of them personally. 'We all
make our own decisions,' Otto said, 'even parents and their children act all differently.
If you do not realize that, we could make the same mistake millions of Germans once
made.' Hitler had a movie shown of a very selfish Jew. 'The Eternal Jews.' As a
result most Germans believe[3]d that all Jews were that way. And so Hitler got the help
he needed to kill six million innocent Jews. Therefore Otto Frank insisted that we stop
talking about 'The Jews', 'The Germans', 'The Arabs', 'The Asians', or whatever.
'Lumping people together is racism,' Otto said. It leads to the Holocaust and still
destroyed countless lives today, like for instance in Bosnia and many other...places.
[MICROPHONE STATIC FOUR SECONDS]
So now I'm lost...
[LIGHT LAUGHTER]
[MICROPHONE STATIC SIX SECONDS]
Yes I've lost it. That is terrible.
[LIGHT LAUGHTER]
[MICROPHONE STATIC]
Ladies and gentlemen, I think you will hold my heart for spending your time with me. I
would like to thank the University, the President and the Wallenberg Committee, bestowed on
me. Particularly President Duderstadt, Elaine Didier, Chair of the University Wallenberg
Committee and Irene Butter for their kind words. Also, I feel very grateful for the
help Professor Ralph Wolfsfinkle gave me these days and was always a wonderful travel companion
to me. It has been wonderful. And I thank you very much. I thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
>>PROFESSOR WOLFSFINKLE: Ladies and gentlemen, it is...not my intention to start another
lecture...and Miep has said that she's prepared to...answer some questions...and I hope you
won't mind that for those questions I will be the mediator. As you have heard she, her
English is very good but um, just in case she doesn't understand a question you...might
ask her...maybe I can quickly translate to her. But before...we start the question and
answer session, I would like to say the following: you have probably heard, you will agree with
me that Miep Gies is an unbelievably modest person. She is far more inclined to talk
down upon her own achievements than she is to...talk about them in a big way. And when
we were talking this afternoon...about a gesture she could make, uh, to the University of Michigan
to show her gratitude for bestowing the honor of the Wallenberg memorial medal upon her,
she said, um, 'Maybe I should present the University with my book?' And I said immediately,
'Of course, that is the best present that you can give.' And then she said, 'but
then, 'I don't even want to talk about my book.' So, that's when we decided that
I should do it. So...
[LIGHT LAUGHTER]
...please, President Duderstadt would you like to come up on the stage and receive this
special gift? I believe you all know the book, but believe me that this is a special one.
>>MIEP GIES: Mr. President...
>>PRESIDENT DUDERSTADT: We're deeply honored. Thank you so much.
>>PROFESSOR: We can't see a thing from here. So, eh, anybody who would like to ask Miep a question, would you please
like to raise your voice very loudly and then we will probably look more or less into your
direction. Who would like to ask the first question? Person right in front. If there's
somebody at the back, you'll have to shout.
>>QUESTION 1: Did you receive punishment for helping protect the Franks from the Germans
or the Nazis...?
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: If this was so, I was not standing here.
>>PROFESSOR: For the people at the back, the question was: Was Miep punished herself for
helping the Franks?
>>MIEP: I have to- I had to look uh, that I was here over at last and so I could eh,
take a position as I want and it loves me.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: She says that she was lucky to be the last one to be interrogated. The other
people in the office were interrogated before her, and because she was the last one, and
the Germans of course, of course were in a hurry, um, she could more or less turn the
interrogation to the way she wanted to have.
>>MIEP: And a lot was also this man was an Austrian Nazi man and I heard of his accent,
and of this, eh, way, I take my position. He came in, I was the last. And said to me,
'And now it is your turn.' I stand up and said to him, 'You are of Vienna. I am
of Vienna too.'
[LAUGHTER]
But that was my, my safe. He stood there and looked me and could never understand that
an Austrian people saved Jews. When he...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Came to himself.
>>MIEP: ...came to himself, he said to me...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Aren't you ashamed to help Jews?
>>MIEP: But I did say no words.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: And that made him very angry.
>>MIEP: At last he said to me, eh, 'I feel so little sympathy from personally sympathy
you would stay. That don't try, to fly, that we, took we, your husband.' At that
moment I make a mistake. I said, 'for my husband, hands off. He did not know about
this thing.' Yes, you, you try always to do anything you could do, only to help. And
he went away and he said to me, 'Don't try to fly because I come back.' And indeed
he came twice...time back in my office, only looked around the door if I was there and
then he went away. But at this way, on this way I could save the diary because this way
when the Nazis were gone we went, I went up in the hiding place and I had a second key
of the place, and that would --did know only Mr. Frank and me. If I was away, there was
no diary and so I go in and put help and put safe the diary.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Another question, maybe? Let me take somebody at the back.
>>QUESTION 2: Does the chestnut tree behind the Anne Frank house still live and blossom
as seen from the rear window?
>>MIEP: Yes, he's standing there, but last year he was sick.
[LAUGHTER]
Yes, because at next the Anne Frank house, is a university for young people and
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: They use oil. Ok, they use oil to heat the house.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: In the lighting...
>>PROFESSOR: Ok, and the, and the oil sprang a leak in the gardens.
>>MIEP: And it came through the, through the street. And when they, when they...
>>PROFESSOR: Discovered it?
>>MIEP: When they discovered it, we went to the government and told it and they came in
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Repaired it. And now he's now standing and he's fine, very fine. You can see him
when you come to Amsterdam.
>>PROFESSOR: Yes?
>>PROFESSOR: Speak louder?
>>QUESTION 3: Um, what gave the Franks away?
>>MIEP: What?
>>PROFESSOR: For, for all of you, eh, the little gentlemen here in the front asks, 'What
gave the Franks away?' I suppose that is a question that will take the rest of the
evening, at least not the question but the answer, so Miep?
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: That is the question?
[LAUGHTER]
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Um, after, um, the war was over, eh, we went to the Police and...the Police...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: The police investigated...the matter, and found that there were, eh, a few
hypotheses, but the strongest suspicion was held against the housemaster.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: There were so many cases after the war of people who accused their neighbors
of having done...bad things during the war that those invest-- investigations that were
done just after the war were not done too well, a bit shoddily, um, if I may add something
of my own, um, there were, just to give you an impression, there were after the war, 400,000
cases against people to be investigated. Almost half a million cases.
>>MIEP: And after fifteen years, when it was quiet, because we were sick of
the war, we began again to see...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: But it was 1960 and in this time the betraitor had died, but who it was, we didn't
know. I have only eh...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Supposed...
>>MIEP: I have only supposed but what can I do now? The people had died. And Mr. Frank
always said to me, 'Miep, I never want to know the name of this betraitor because these
people is too...'
>>PROFESSOR: Low...
>>MIEP: 'too low for me.' I did not want know it and I did not repay my children and
my woman. And also after the war when we were looking for the man who arrested us, that
was Silverbaur in Vienna, and Mr. Misenchau searched this man but he did not know his
name and he went to Otto Frank and asked the name and Otto Frank gave the wrong name of
this but Misenchau was looking for us a whole year and he found him he went to him. And
after I ask Otto, why did you not tell me the true name of this? Why did you not tell
the true name to Misenchau? He said, 'Miep, listen. The children of this man must go,
over the world. And I did not want that they were blamed for her, for his father.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Have you understood? So we have to resign ourselves to the fact that we will
never know who did it but there have been suspicions but...we will never be able to
prove anything.
>>MIEP: But this per, eh, this Silverbaur, he was a policeman, he did not work for a
year in the country.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Yeah, he was not allowed to serve as a policeman for a year until the investigation
against him was completed. Yes?
>>QUESTION 4: Um, you speak of how Anne Frank was always happy? Do you think that she kept
a smile on her face to cover up her emotions?
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Yes, that is true. That is true.
>>PROFESSOR: Did everybody hear the question?
>>AUDIENCE: No...
[LAUGHTER]
>>PROFESSOR: The question was that eh, Miep said that eh, Anne was always smiling and
always happy, and, eh, this young lady asks now, whether Miep thinks maybe that was because
she used her smile to hide her true feelings. Miep?
>>MIEP: Eh, Anne was also clever. Yes, she was clever. Because it was that I was in the
hiding place in the morning when every...go down, she was standing at the door, at last,
waiting for me. And then, when I went on, then she want to talk with me. Eh, I believe
she want to know the trouble with, eh, Pendis Dissel. Look, eh, this man was lonely. He
was without his wife. I was the...
[GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Go between?
>>MIEP: What?
>>PROFESSOR: Go between?
>>MIEP: And I was, I was go between him and his wife. But his wife's did not know where
he was. And only, eh, only received the, the letters and packets from her and she thought
I was the person between, the person he know where he, where uh, his men was. And when
I had a letter or a packet I brought it to this man. And you can understand this man
was alone, and I knew that I was always with her, so he asked me, 'What is my wife doing,
where she going and tell me please about her.' So it was a long time in the morning when
I was near him. And one day Mr. Frank came to me and said, 'Miep, please, this is not
possible that you can help...not so st—not so long with a doctors, eh, Dissel. And then
I was afr-I was bos...
>>PROFESSOR: Angry.
>>MIEP: I was angry. The one, eh, the oldest one. I said to him, 'Please Mr. Frank, you
are here with your whole family. This man is here only, he can only, eh, contact with
his wife by me. And Mr. Frank says, 'Yes, Miep you are right.' Because it was always
Dissel, eh, sometime, eh, trouble with Anne in attendance, because they had...
>>PROFESSOR: Agreed...
>>MIEP: They had agreed that Dissel must, eh, a few hours on the table and then Anne
a few days on the direct table, but the dentist, he was not so young man, and he, it was very
heavy for him. He was thinking...
>>PROFESSOR: According to him
>>MIEP: According to him, eh, what would this child write a diary for a child. And he, go
earlier to the table, and that was always the trouble with Dentist and Anne. And other
people in hiding said then that Anne was eh,...
>>PROFESSOR: Rude?
>>MIEP: Hmm?
>>PROFESSOR: Rude?
>>MIEP: Anne was rude child, but it was not so.
>>PROFESSOR: Maybe I should add about the dentist that, uh, in 1985 his girlfriend,
um, whom actually married him in 1953 posthumously, eh, died herself and her name was, eh, was
Shalota Kalitta and because she had nobody in Amsterdam, much of her belongings ended
up on the flea markets in Amsterdam where they were found by, eh, a person working for
the Anne Frank foundation and among her personal possessions, Shalota Kalitta's possessions,
were quite a number, not all, but quite a number of the letters that Dr. Dissel had
written to her while in hiding that Miep had taken to her, and from those letters...may
I say it, Miep?
>>MIEP: Yah.
>>PROFESSOR: Yeah, from those letters, we get a completely different picture from
Dr. Dissel, than we get from Anne's diary. Um, from those letters he, eh appears
as a very warm-hearted, eh, loving man, slightly romantic but, what's wrong with that?
[LAUGHTER]
And, ehm, so we have to, when we read the diary, we have to understand that Anne, eh,
writes about him, eh, because he is in her way, she doesn't understand, eh, what the
man's going through, just like Miep was saying just now and so her impatience with
him is, is not necessarily a bad reflection on his character. Um, that is what I wanted
to say.
>>MIEP: Yah, that is right.
>>PROFESSOR: Another question?
>>QUESTION 5:
[TOO QUIET TO BE HEARD]
>>PROFESSOR: How did Mr. Frank die?
>>MIEP: How does Mr. Frank die?
>>PROFESSOR: How did he die?
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Yeah?
>>MIEP: He was old, he was 90...
[LAUGHTER] [CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Ok, he died in 1980, 91 years old, but as Miep says its more interesting,
maybe, to tell you, not how he died but how he was saved.
>>MIEP: That is more interesting.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Mr. Frank was in Auschwitz, very ill in the concentration camp, and, eh, with other
people in the hospital, and then there was feeling that the Russian was coming. And one
day, all the ill people of the concentration camp were placed on the...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: On the courtyard of the...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Of the prison. And what I, so, am thinking of this people, they think: 'Now,
the Germans go away, and the sick mens, the sick people will stay and we will shot them.'
Eh, they were sitting in a place, and, they...
>>PROFESSOR: Say goodbye?
>>MIEP: ...Say goodbye to another because they waited for the shot, but they were sitting
there for hours. And upon, the door came open and the Russian came, so the German had no
time to shot down the sick people in concentration camp Auschwitz, and that was the safe, the
saving of Otto Frank. They had no time to shot him.
>>PROFESSOR: Well, that's a better answer than you can have expected. Yes?
>>QUESTION 6:
[TOO QUIET TO BE HEARD]
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: When was the last time Miep saw Anne?
>>MIEP: The 4th of Aug—August in the morning. 8 O'clock—9 O'clock. I was the only
because I was always the first one who, eh, came up in the hiding place. And I was talking
with her, and, I went downstairs in my office and an hour later the Germans came, the Nazis
came to arrest me. So I had to look...
>>PROFESSOR: Can I ask you, Miep, did you still see the people coming down the stairs?
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: Ah, no, no. That wasn't possible.
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Hang on, she was told that she had to remain sitting behind her desk in her
office, that she wasn't even allowed to look outside, that she was not allowed to
go to the window to see what was happening outside.
>>MIEP: My friend Eli could escape, and we stayed Mr. Copehouse, Mr. Carn and me, we
stayed behind. Mr. Copehouse said to me, 'Miep, at this time, you can go, again.' But I
could not. I said, 'No, I stay, I go with you to the concentration camp.' And then,
eh, Mr. Copehouse...
>>PROFESSOR: Was interrogated...
>>MIEP: Was interrogated and then he came to me and said, 'Miep...try to stay out,
save what you can save here.' But he wasn't thinking of the diary of Anne Frank, no because
it was so in Amsterdam. In a house where lived Jews and Christian people, when the Jews were
taken away, all the things of Jews were taken away but, eh...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>MIEP: The goods of the prison people stayed. And so he thought, and I would say, but he
did not say it to me, if he can stay here, she can save the whole house. And I understand
it. But yes, how, how could I do that? But then came the, eh, policemen. And I played
a play and it was good.
>>PROFESSOR: "Eh, shall we have one more question? Yeah? One more question than we're
running into nine o'clock.
>>QUESTION 7:
[TOO QUIET TO BE HEARD]
[LAUGHTER] >>MIEP: What was that?
>>PROFESSOR: Eh, eh, not unexpected question, eh, does Miep, eh, think that, eh, had Anne
lived would she have, eh, remained in love with Peter forever?
>>MIEP: No. [LAUGHTER]
Because if you read the diary, Anne was going to Peter in the beginning because
he had nobody want to speak with him and she grew up... the love came, but later on you
can see, she wrote not...much about Peter because Peter has not the same...high as Anne...
[CONSULTING IN GERMAN]
>>PROFESSOR: Miep thinks that Peter was not as intelligent as Anne.
[LAUGHTER]
>>PROFESSOR: So, eh, so the relationship would not have lasted.
>>MIEP: No. [LAUGHTER]
>>PROFESSOR: Thank you very much.
[APPLAUSE]
>>ELAINE DIDIER: Thank you very much for coming, Ladies and Gentlemen. My last act of the evening
is to alert you to the fact that there are two more events, two more opportunities to
think about these issues and to talk with Miep. The first is a coffee hour here at the
graduate school tomorrow morning from ten to eleven on the fourth floor and second,
tomorrow afternoon at four o'clock, Professor Wolfsfinkle will be leading a seminar discussion
of returning refugees, Dutch Jews, after the Holocaust. Thank you so much for helping to
make this a magnificent evening.
[APPLAUSE]