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Tyrone: Welcome to the podcast! Today, Iíve got Sean from Manila at the moment, he usually
is in Bangkok but heís flown over to Manila. Iíll let him tell you the story behind why
heís in Manila right now and why heís not in Bangkok. I came across meeting Sean through
Dan Andrews and Seanís a lifestyle entrepreneur and Iím really excited to share his story
with you because heís got a very interesting story. It will encourage you to look at a
different way of being in the business and also looking at having a lifestyle and combining
both of those together. So, welcome to the call Sean and itís great to have you on!
Sean: Itís great to be here, thanks.
Tyrone: Letís start off with just maybe sharing a little bit more about your story to the
audience to tell them a little bit more about what currently youíre doing or letís take
a step back. Where did you start and how did you get to where you are right now?
Sean: So originally, Iím from the United States, Portland Oregon. I graduated in a
University like three years ago and I did the traditional thing. I got a desk job, I
worked in Finance, suit-and-tie and it took me about six months to realize that really,
it was not the route I want to be going. I stayed in that job up until the end of last
year and finally I was like, ìYou know what, I canít handle this anymoreÖI have to do
something more interesting, more adventurous and so.î I left my job and thatís when I
got in touch with Dan and he said, ìHey, Iíve got this opportunity in South East Asia,
building some businesses and I want someone to come out here and help me do that.î So
I come again, here I hopped on a flight and he basically said to pick a city where you
want to go to and I said I want to go to Thailand. I said I want to go to Thailand so I hanged
out in Thailand for a month and I was kind of stuck.
Tyrone: And you also got a popular blog as well, Location180. I was actually following
your blog for sometime and you got some really interesting stories you share on there. Whatís
got you started writing in the blog?
Sean: Well the whole reason I started the blog was because I knew I wanted to make a
change and I had no idea what to do. I was like I have got all these thoughts going through
my mind, I wanted to travel and I wanted to do something entrepreneurial. I just kind
of said Iím going to start a blog; Iím going to start writing and see whatever it takes
me. I started it last May, itís May 2009. If you go back, the first posts were kind
of about lots of places. Iím talking about travel, trips Iíve taken in the past, and
also some random stuff. Finally, I got in touch with some of the right people and got
to find a niche that really seem to be working for me. That was the coolest part of the whole
blog ó it helps you build up a sports system. By the time it came to make a decision to
leave the job, I had all those people to help me out, all supportive of it. Thatís a nice
by-product blog that I wasnít expecting.
Tyrone: Thatís nice. What weíre you doing as you said before youíve decided flying
to Bangkok, what were you actually doing in United States?
Sean: I was a financial analyst. I work for a small money management firm so Iím basically
crunched in numbers. I was researching stocks and helping decide whether or not they were
the right things to be purchased for clients, some things like that. But, part of the problem
was itís such a small company that you know I was fresh out of school and theyíre like
ìYou didnít really know what youíre talking aboutÖî kind of thing. I never really gained
detraction. Theyíre able to pay a little more attention or raise the youth but I didnít
think it wouldnít work out better. It was just wasnít the right type of business for
me.
Tyrone: Okay, but youíre still having a secure income back there. Youíre living a decent
life over there and to take that leap of faith and to jump over to Bangkok to do what youíre
currently doing. It really took a lot of guts didnít it, to do what you did?
Sean: Oh, it was terrifying. I remember the day when I left my job, I was like ìOh crap,
now what do I do?î But, it was amazing how quickly things turn to fall into place. We
didnít know that in a week Iíll have other job opportunities, Iíll have opportunities
to travel and find friends. I really kind of found that when youíre in a position to
start embracing opportunities, youíre never really going to find them. When I was in my
job I wasnít really looking for new things. But as soon as I didnít have that burden,
then all sorts of things started to open up for me.
Tyrone: Itís amazing when you actually set yourself free from one place and you go into
a new place, it just changes everything.
Sean: Absolutely.
Tyrone: I notice youíve been sweating there, is it hotter there in Manila at the moment?
Sean: Itís a little hot here. Itís like we donít have an aircon and now, Iím not
seated in front of the fan anymore. Itís definitely right up cooler there in Bangkok.
Tyrone: All right, letís talk a little bit more about currently where youíre at. Youíve
flown into Manila and what was the story behind that one. Itís only been in the last week
since it happened.
Sean: Yes, so basically Iíve been in Bangkok for the last four months, and thereís been
a little bit of civil unrest. Thereíve been a lot of protests going on and everything
has kind of come into ahead during the last week or so, ten days. It was at the point
where my apartment building happened to be one block away from very keypoint of confrontation
between the protesters and the military. I woke up one day and I went out to lunch and
there was like 50 soldiers marching down my street and by the end of the night there would
be constant gunfires, constant explosions and I fell asleep watching clashes go off
my window with all the bombs going off. It was pretty intense situation and it only got
worse, my neighborhood has been basically burnt in the ground. I spent the last few
days in Bangkok over a friendís house on the other side of town and finally the military
decided to move in on the main entrapment where the protesters were. That was when everything
really went down and I just didnít see where the safe place be. I believe the country anyway
is facing some Visa reasons so I was like well, where can I go? I called up Dan and
said Iím coming to Manila. Five hours later, I was on a flight.
Tyrone: So youíre in Manila right now catching up with Dan. Letís jump now to whatís happening
with yourself and Dan where youíve come onto the MBA program with Dan. Has it been six
months yet?
Sean: Yeah, I think he started it in November so about six months ago.
Tyrone: Okay, maybe to share with the audience, what is this Tropical MBA that youíve been
participating with Danís business as well?
Sean: Behind the idea of the Tropical MBA is that you can go out and you can spend two
years of your life and get $100,000 to get a traditional MBA. Obviously, you get to learn
stuff but youíre not learning in a lot of real, hands-on things that you need to know
to run a business. And so, he said you know what that systemís broken ó I can come out
here, I can bring someone in and I can pay for their general living expenses, teach them
how to build a business and everybody gets about that. So, Iím coming out here and brought
me to very high level of their business ó basically said jump in. Youíve been kind
of getting cents in the first couple of weeks of the areas where you can add some value.
Anytime I needed help with anything or had any idea that is, theyíre always there. Really,
itís kind of being served by mentors. We work from building these businesses together.
Itís a cool, unique program and over the coming years, I would expect a lot more things
that will be driven this way because I know that the value that Iíve taken from this
program is equal, if not greater to anything I would have got from traditional education.
Tyrone: Awesome. It sounds like things are going really well for you. Were you expecting
to be at in six months time since the start?
Sean: I donít know where I expect it to be in six months but Iím really happy with the
place that Iím in. Like I said I kind of figured out what Iím going to be doing that
comes alive. Itís a six-month program and we continue to work together ó just a matter
of whether I stay in Thailand, or like in Manila, will I go back in the States. Itís
cool to have that flexibility that not many people do. Itís all been exciting.
Tyrone: Definitely. It sounds like because the business is that you and Danís business
is very mobile, you can run the business to anywhere. Thatís the reason why Danís in
the Philippines and then his partnerís in San Diego, and youíre over Thailand.
Sean: Yeah, thatís right.
Tyrone: And youíre able to manage your mobile business.
Sean: So we work with a team of people here in the Philippines who are awesome. I think
thatís been one of the most exciting thing for me to be coming out here. Sitting about
20 feet away from you right now, I get to sit down and work with them on a day-to-day
basis these people that Iíve been talking to 4-5 hours a day, I never thought I get
to meet them personally, thatís pretty fun.
Tyrone: Thatís awesome. Well, letís delve into outsourcing which is a key topic that
I think a lot of people are interested in. Because now youíve got first-hand experience
with them physically sitting in Manila right now, what kind of things currently the business
is doing outsourcing to the Philippines and how does that been very beneficial for yourself
and also to the business?
Sean: Essentially, weíve got a team of five people right now I think. Weíve got two very
dedicated developers, a designer, and also couple of people doing general kind of link
building and article marketing kinds of tasks. Itís cool because you find people up here
who are motivated, they really want to work, theyíre well educated and they speak English.
You donít have that communication barrier ó thereís a lot of people that you might
have had in other developing countries. So itís really been a beneficial thing for our
business to see weíve got to have those dedicated skills for the design, development and all
that stuff and we can do it in much affordable cost as opposed to what would be in California,
something like that.
Tyrone: What are we looking at, say for example someone whoís just started out in outsourcing
and theyíre intersted in finding developers like youíre looking at right now it maybe
for WordPress, PHP, Drupal, any of those technical stuff, what would you say itís like the cost
of hiring someone in the US compared in hiring someone in the Philippines?
Sean: Well, I mean for any decent developer in the United States, thereís such a wide
range. Thereís people who are college students that are having their another investment or
there are people doing nothing and then youíll get professionals making six-figure incomes.
I would say that the average person in the United States is charging or making $50,000
a year, when you look at what you can get out in the Philippines, granted some of the
numbers get thrown around that there are really expensive amount ó 100 bucks a month, 200
bucks a month, those are little unrealistic when youíre trying to hire high level skills.
But still, certainly not $50,000 a year. Itís much more affordable.
Tyrone: Definitely, that means that youíre be able to leverage potentially a lot more
with still hiring one person. In United States, you could hire up probably five instead and
you can get as much time done quicker as well.
Sean: With the amount of money you aim for one person in United States, youíre getting
a team of people that cover a variety of skills thatís here.
Tyrone: Absolutely. So far from your experience of working with them, whatís been the differences
between working with Westerners and to people working in the Philippines. Whatís the culture
or whatís been the work ethic with them. How did you find working with them?
Sean: One of things I found in the Philippines is that from the moment I step foot in Manila,
it seems like California. Itís very Americanized here especially compared to Thailand or any
other developing countries. Itís got people that for fun they drink Coors Light and watch
the NBA. You can relate to them more than you can relate with other cultures I think.
Like I said, the fact that most of them speak fluent English here, it makes everything much
easier from both the social land of business aspects. I feel like Iím able to talk to
them, get to know them and joke around with them and that translates over to a good business
relationship. I kind of getting involved with everything that weíre doing and been excited
with the projects and I think thatís the most beneficial things weíve done in trying
to build the business.
Tyrone: Thatís excellent. Since you mentioned about talking about projects, a lot of people
probably are also interested in finding out how do you go about managing the projects.
Like say for example youíve got a team of five people now and obviously you wouldnít
be just managing with one person day in day out, you probably have been dealing with multiple
staff or team environment, what are some of the systems youíve got in place thatís able
to help you work from Bangkok or anywhere from around the world that has enabled you
to move through these projects quickly and get them completed on schedule?
Sean: Generally, one of the most important things we do is we try to setup channels of
communications so that people are bombarded with constant messages. Weíve got our team
of people back in San Diego, theyíll be sending to us and we get 20-30 emails a day from the
day of request. By filtering those through someone like me or having them sort out which
are the high priorities are and then transfer that into team, theyíll be bombarded of messages.
Theyíre receiving of messages from a dozen of people so itís really by organizing business
in that sense. I think itís definitely helped to increase the productivity as well as the
clear communication. Also, we found that using Skype is one of the best ways to coordinate
with people. To talk whether itís conference calls, group chats, or quick questions, by
setting up their Skypes so that all they can see is their work contacts. Itís really an
effective tool which is just sometimes underrated by other people.
Tyrone: Absolutely, communication is crucial. Youíre basically acting us a filtering mechanism
for the business to be able to get the work done and make sure itís been sent over to
right department or people so that work can be done on time and completed. Do you use
a project management system to do all that or do you just communicate via email and Skype?
Sean: We also use the Basecamp. Thereís definitely some pros and cons there and weíre also in
the process of seeing if thereís something else thatís better out there but thatís
what weíre currently using.
Tyrone: Thatís great. Iíve heard over to people who are outsourcing over to the Philippines
and using BasecampHQ as well so itís quite a simplistic system thatís something that
we understand. Also, if I remember correctly, Dan mentioned that youíve got an office so
have you, has your team or your company have purchased a building? Or is it just an old
building and you setup an office or is it just youíve hired another company to do this
for you?
Sean: That was one of the biggest reasons I cannot hear timing lies thatís worked out.
Weíve just moved in our office last week thatís actually I said it more looked like
a call center than an office. There was another expat here out here that had some space and
Dan talked to him. Couple of days later, here we are. Itís really cool for the team to
be able to come working on a centralized location, hang out with each other. I think it does
a lot with productivity. Itís like after a while, not seeing anybody, you get a little
lonely in your home office. Itís definitely something that will help the social culture
of the business. I think that having them to come in here four days a week could really
be good for morale and productivity.
Tyrone: Excellent. So over time as the business grows, as yourself starts to grow the business
and take a step back, what is it that youíll need to do to get yourself outside the business
to be able to achieve that lifestyle of being able to live the 4-hour, 10-hour work week
working at most two hours a day. This is I think something that a lot of people want
to know because as youíre going through the Tropical MBA program, youíre learning how
we design the businesses so weíll have the flexibility of lifestyle.
Sean: Exactly.
Tyrone: How do you think we can achieve that?
Sean: Well I think thereís a variety of ways that we can do it. I know from me personally,
Iíve got my own personal website, Iíve got my own personal project thatíll be coming
out there and thereíll be big product launch that Iíll be doing in the next couple of
months that Iím excited about. By creating the passive income on a personal level, that
will enable me to have the income and little bit of security and flexibility of my life
from the general business standpoint. I think the most important thing is being passionate
about what youíre doing. I come in here and I work, helping grow businesses and I donít
necessary feel like itís work. You got the 4-hour, 10-hour work weeks and I donít think
any of those are necessarily true. I think Tim Ferriss probably works more than anybody
who has every read his book. I think continuing the scale of the business or the things that
we should focus on most is creating scalable processes that we can outsource or have other
people do and we can be a million-dollar or fifty-million dollar business, but the same
general level of work is involved. Once you get to that level and things start changing,
as long as you got the right processes in place, itís going to automate things and
free up some of your time and youíll be in good shape. Thatís what weíre trying to
do here.
Tyrone: Dan and yourself have been talking a lot about scaling. Define ìscalingî in
your terms.
Sean: Define scaling in my termsÖ I think the most important thing is being extremely
*** about what youíre trying to do. So when you create a process for instance one
of the things we do is article marketing campaign. Iíve got a very detailed process for knowing
exactly what needs to be written, what the terms are and where they should be submitted,
if I could give that to one person, 10 people or 50 people or how many people working on
it and they can look at that and know exactly what they need to do, then thatís scalable.
Things like that, Itís basically saying weíre going to do all the work now so in the future,
thereíll be no additional work that needs to be done in terms of growing the business.
Definitely you can grow it organically by having the same process in place.
Tyrone: Itís really having like say for example your flowchart of step by step documentations.
All the things are in place to train the people so that they can take this all and you donít
have to repeat the process over and over again, or coming back to Sean for example to do the
work.
Sean: Exactly. Especially when you got one person doing it, by the time you bring on
another person to do it, the first is an expert. Instead of me training them, itís them training
them and it grows that way. Thatís worked out well so far.
Tyrone: All right, weíve talked a lot about the benefits and closures of outsourcing.
What about some of personal issues or things that youíve come across or challenges for
outsourcing the business?
Sean: I think that a lot of the challenges that arise from outsourcing are the same issues
that will arise in traditional business. For instance, generally speaking people out here
are extremely motivated, extremely hard working, but then youíll also get a lot of people
who arenít. Youíll have a lot of people that are working home, they can say like ìYou
canít see me, you donít really know what Iím doing.î and sometimes theyíll tend
to slack off a little bit. You really have to keep an eye on those types of people and
make sure that theyíre not just trying to take advantage of you. Weíve run into that
a little bit but not really and generally everyone weíre working with are extremely
motivated and they really feel are part of the team.
Tyrone: Have you had any issues recently or in the past with hiring people? What are some
of the things that you may have. Have you had someone whoís started or after a week
or so it just didnít work out?
Sean: I think with Dan I got first involved. Generally Iíve been working with the same
team since I got here. Weíve actually hired one or two more people since Iíve been here
and we havenít had to get rid of anyone. I think he first started with a little bit
of a learning curve trying to figure out exactly how to do business some things like that.
He could probably tell you about that more than I could but so far itís worked out well.
I think one of the keys that you can run through is thereís people who speak extremely fluent
English and they sound like theyíre from California and there are others who can speak
it but can still have the strong accent. Sometimes if you try to talk to them on the phone with
a bad connection over Skype it can be a little bit difficult to understand. So I think communication
eventhough if itís much easier here in the Philippines opposed to some places like Thailand,
still itís definitely one of the bigger issues.
Tyrone: Absolutely. Have you hired anyone from Thailand by the way since youíre over
there?
Sean: Not from Thailand. Generally eventhough Iím physically in Bangkok, pretty much all
the work Iíve been doing is back from States and over here in the Philippines.
Tyrone: Is there any future expansion into other countries or is it just going to be
solely focused on hiring people from the Philippines?
Sean: You know thatís a good question! I think right now in terms of what weíre doing,
I think the Philippines is where itís at. I think in terms of the quality of talent,
affordability, I think thatís really the direction that everythingís heading. I think
we might see more expansion in the States back in our San Diego office but I think generally
in terms of a lot of stuff weíre doing, weíre going to be really focused in the Philippines
trying to get things in the next level here.
Tyrone: Fantastic. Weíve talked a lot about the business side, plans and the past and
futures of the business, what do you have for yourself Sean. What are your future plans
in terms of lifestyle, fun activities, and traveling stuffs like that, what are your
plans?
Sean: Iíve got all sorts of things planned. Iíll be doing the course over the next ten
years. One of the biggest things is when I started my blog Location180, I put a list
of stuff that I do want to accomplish on earth. All the fun things I want to do in my life
and so Iíve been slowly kind of plowing away those activities. I think that the more time
I free up through the passive income stuff and bigger businesses I get, the more I get
to work on the fun stuff like skydiving, going scuba, those kinds of things.
Tyrone: You got a big bucketlist thing there I remember.
Sean: Itís like a hundred items or something right now but itís been interesting. Iíve
been randomly crossing things off. I went to the airport and I had no idea where else
I got to go so that happened just last week and I was still debating between Hongkong
and Singapore. I thought I gave Dan a call and came up to Philippines. That was one thing
and I had a benefit coming here. Well, it lets me have a good time and still gives me
the freedom of time and I think thatís the most important thing. Definitely Iím right
past so far so Iíve been doing this for the next four months and for the next 40 years.
Tyrone: Absolutely, sounds awesome. Thatís fantastic. If anyone wants to get in contact
with you Sean, how can I contact you and where can I go to find out what you currently do?
Sean: Well the best ways to contact me are through my website which is www.seanogle.com,
s-e-a-n-o-g-l-e, or you can email me at sean@seanogle.com. Those are probably the two easiest ways, Iím
with my computer all the time so Iím not a real difficult person to get in touch with.
Very cool, one other thing that I will mention is Iíve been doing a Tropical MBA program
and I was per semester. Thereís a second semester, Dan is accepting applications for
that. Itís a little bit different. Itís basically giving the opportunity to come down
to a tropical island in the Philippines, have all their expenses paid down there and we
work on projects 2-3 hours a day, while continuing to work on whatever projects theyíve got
for themselves so itís really unique opportunity. If you go to TropicalMBA.com, you can find
about that. I know that this opportunity has changed my lifeÖso much. Itís been honestly
the best thing that could happen for me. If you give someone else an opportunity thatís
something similar, thatís pretty cool.
Tyrone: Thatís awesome. I love to share that with everyone. I think thatís a great thing.
For anyone who wants to find out more, just go to TropicalMBA.com. I think we can also
get in contact with Dan Andrews as well and heís got a lot information, highly recommended.
Well, Sean, thanks so much for your time today, itís been a pleasure to interview you. Thanks
for sharing all your inside tips on outsourcing to the Philippines and Iíll definitely catch
up soon again. All the best!
Sean: Thanks a lot, I appreciate it.