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>WELCOME TO TIME FOR HOPE, A FAITH BASED MENTAL HEALTH
PROGRAM. JOIN CERTIFIED CLINICAL MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELOR AND
CHRISTIAN PSYCHOTHERAPIST, DR. FREDA CREWS, AND HER GUESTS AS
THEY DISCUSS REAL-LIFE ISSUES AND OFFER EXPERT CLINICAL ADVICE
AND SOLID BIBLICAL APPLICATION FOR ANY AND ALL LIFE SITUATIONS.
NOW HERE'S YOUR HOST OF TIME FOR HOPE, DR. FREDA CREWS.
>I RELATED LAST WEEK THAT HOST OF THE NATIONALLY SYNDICATED
RADIO PROGRAM BIBLE ANSWER MAN, AUTHOR, CHRISTIAN APOLOGIST AND
PRESIDENT OF THE CHRISTIAN RESEARCH INSTITUTE HANK
HANEGRAAFF WOULD BE MY GUEST AGAIN THIS WEEK AND TODAY WE ARE
CONTINUING OUR DISCUSSION OF HIS BOOK TITLED AFTERLIFE WHAT YOU
NEED TO KNOW ABOUT HEAVEN, THE HEREAFTER AND NEAR-DEATH
EXPERIENCES. I HOPE LAST WEEK THAT WE WERE ABLE TO ANSWER MANY
OF YOUR QUESTIONS RELATED TO WHERE WE GO AND WHAT WE DO AFTER
THIS LIFE AND THAT YOU ARE WAITING FOR MORE ANSWERS AS WE
CLOSE OUT OUR DISCUSSION WITH HANK.
>AND HANK WE ARE RIGHT HERE LIKE WE TOLD OUR GUESTS WE WOULD BE
AGAIN THIS WEEK. AND I THINK WE PROBABLY LEFT THEM HANGING ON
SOME THINGS THAT WE MIGHT OUGHT TO KIND OF GIVE SOME KIND OF
CLOSURE TO LIKE HEAVEN. I WAS ASKING THAT AS WE WENT OFF. AS
OF NOW, RIGHT NOW, DO YOU SEE GOD RESIDING IN A PLACE CALLED
HEAVEN? A REAL SPECIFIC PLACE CALLED HEAVEN.
>WELL I THINK THIS IS HOW WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT. WE HAVE
TO THINK ABOUT HEAVEN NOT AS A DIFFERENT LOCATION FROM EARTH
BUT TWO DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS OF GOD'S GOOD CREATION. AND WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN JESUS APPEARS A SECOND TIME IS THE VEIL BETWEEN
THE HABITATION OF GOD AND THE HABITATION OF HUMANITY IS
REMOVED AND THEN JESUS CHRIST IS AVAILABLE TO US PHYSICALLY JUST
AS HE IS NOW AVAILABLE TO US SPIRITUALLY. SO THERE'S A SENSE
IN WEDGE IF YOU WOULD DIE TODAY YOU'D BE ABSENT THE BODY PRESENT
WITH THE LORD SO HEAVEN WOULD BE A PERSON, IT WOULD BE A
RELATIONSHIP.
>A STATE OF BEING COULD YOU CALL IT THAT?
>YES BECAUSE WE ARE BODY SOUL UNITIES.
>IF WE REMEMBER LAST WEEK ONE OF MY GUESTS ASKED THAT QUESTION
WHERE IS MY WIFE? SHE HAS DIED WHERE IS SHE AND I HAD ASKED
MYSELF THAT QUESTION YOU KNOW WHAT'S MY HUSBAND DOING, WHAT'S
GOING ON AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
>RIGHT WE TALK ABOUT THE BODY ASLEEP IN DEATH BUT WE NEVER
TALK ABOUT THE SOUL ASLEEP IN DEATH. THE SOUL CONTINUES TO
HAVE CONSCIOUS AWARENESS OF THE PRESENCE.
>IT NEVER DIES. THE SOUL OF MAN THAT OLD SONG USED TO SAY IT
NEVER DIES DOES IT?
>IT NEVER DIES NO AND SO WE'RE THEN IN AN INTERMEDIATE HEAVEN
AS IT WERE. BUT HEAVEN ONE DAY WILL AGAIN BE A PLACE BECAUSE
GOD DOESN'T SCRAP THINGS HE REDEEMS THEM AND SO THE UNIVERSE
PAUL SAYS IN ROMANS EIGHT IS NOW GROANING IN TRAVAIL IT'S
AWAITING ITS LIBERATION FROM BONDAGE TO DECAY. WHEN JESUS
APPEARS THE SECOND TIME THEN WHAT HAPPENS TO OUR BODIES IS
THEY ARE RESURRECTED GOES HAND-IN-HAND WITH WHAT HAPPENS
TO THE EARTH. IT TOO IS RESURRECTED. IT IS RESTORED.
>GROANING TO BE RIGHT NOW ISN'T IT?
>PARADISE LOST BECAUSE IT'S RESTORED AND THEN HEAVEN WILL
NOT ONLY BE A PERSON HEAVEN WILL BE A PLACE. THIS UNIVERSE
RESTORED.
>I HAVE TAUGHT AND I BELIEVE THAT THERE IS WITHIN US A DESIRE
FOR THE ORIGINAL GARDEN.
>YES.
>AND WE WILL NOT BE HAPPY NOR CONTENT UNTIL WE ARE BACK THERE.
>YES THAT'S ABSOLUTELY RIGHT AND IS WELL PUT. IT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
I MEAN THAT'S THE WHOLE BOX TOP AS IT WERE OF SCRIPTURE. IN THE
BEGINNING ADAM AND EVE FAWNED TO LIES PERPETUAL SIN TURRIED BY
DEATH. BUT THE REST OF THE BIBLE IS GOD'S UNFOLDING PLAN OF
REDEMPTION CULMINATING IN THE RESTORED GARDEN SO PARADISE LOST
BECOMES PARADISE RESTORED. AND THAT'S WHAT JOHN GIVES US A
VISION OF IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION. HE SEES THE NEW
JERUSALEM COMING DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN PREPARED AS A BRIDE
BEAUTIFULLY ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND AND THEN HE SAYS HE
HEARS A LOUD VOICE FROM THE THRONE SAYING NOW THE DWELLING
OF GOD IS WITH MEN AND HE WILL LIVE WITH THEM. HE WILL WIPE
EVERY TEAR FROM THEIR EYES. THERE'LL BE NO MORE DEATH OR
MOURNING OR CRYING OR PAIN FOR THE OLDER OF THINGS WILL HAVE
PASSED AWAY BEHOLD ALL THINGS HAVE BECOME NEW. SO PARADISE
LOST IS NOW PARADISE RESTORED. GOD'S ORIGINAL INTENT IS
REDEEMED AS IT WERE AND WE WILL FOREVER BE ABLE NOT TO SIN AND
WE WILL HAVE THE BEST OF ALL POSSIBLE CIRCUMSTANCES A WORLD
IN WHICH WE FOREVER LEARN AND GROW AND DEVELOP AND EXPLORE THE
GLORY AND GRANDEUR NOT ONLY OF GOD'S CREATIVE HANDIWORK BUT THE
ONE WHO SAVED US BY HIS GRACE.
>YOU KNOW PEOPLE LOOK AT ME SO STRANGELY WHEN I TEACH THAT
THAT'S WHERE HEAVEN IS GOING TO BE, BACK ON THIS RESTORED EARTH.
AND THEY MUST NOT HEAR IT VERY OFTEN OR THEY MUST NOT BE TAUGHT
THAT VERY OFTEN. WHAT STAYS IN THEIR MINDS I THINK IS WHAT YOU
ACTUALLY TOUCHED ON THAT IN YOUR BOOK ALSO IS REVELATION AND
WHERE IT'S GOING TO BE STREETS OF GOLD AND GATES OF PEARL. BUT
YOU'RE SAYING THAT'S WHAT IT'S NOT FACT, RIGHT?
>WELL IT'S THE IMAGERY THAT'S USED IN THE BIBLE TO COMMUNICATE
A GREATER REALITY. METAPHORS HAVE SHARP TEETH. THEY DON'T
OBSCURE INFORMATION THEY ILLUMINATE INFORMATION WE MIGHT
OTHERWISE MISS. SO THE PICTURE WE HAVE IN THE BOOK OF
REVELATION OF GATES OF PEARL AND STREETS OF GOLD IS NOT INTENDED
TO TELL US WHAT HEAVEN LOOKS LIKE BUT WHAT HEAVEN IS LIKE.
YOU KNOW FOR EXAMPLE IN THE FIRST CHAPTER IN THE BOOK OF
REVELATION WE HAVE A PICTURE OF JESUS. HE HAS WHITE HAIR. HE HAS
A TONGUE THAT LOOKS LIKE A SWORD. WELL AGAIN THAT'S NOT
INTENDING TO TELL US WHAT JESUS LOOKED LIKE.
>AND 10 TOES.
>BUT IT IS WHAT JESUS IS LIKE. IT'S TELLING US SOMETHING ABOUT
HIM. FOR EXAMPLE WHEN THE BIBLE TEACHES THAT JESUS IS A LION OR
JESUS IS A LAMB AGAIN IT'S NOT TELLING US WHAT JESUS LOOKS LIKE
BUT IT'S TELLING SOMETHING ABOUT JESUS.
>ABOUT HIM YES. SO OKAY I HAVE THAT. SO WHEN JESUS SAID TO THE
THIEF ON THE CROSS TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE, HE
WAS GOING TO THE TRANSITIONAL HEAVEN. SO IS THERE A NAME FOR
THAT?
>NO BUT THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT ABRAHAM'S *** OR PARADISE ARE
METAPHORS, THEY'RE WAYS OF SPEAKING ABOUT BEING IN THE
PRESENCE OF GOD AND THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAID TO THE THIEF ON THE
CROSS.
>WE'RE LAYING THERE IN OUR BODY BUT OUR SOUL IS IN THE PRESENCE
OF GOD.
>YES AND THAT'S WHAT JESUS SAID TO THE FATHER. FATHER INTO THY
HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT AND THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS AT DEATH
ARE OUR SOUL COMES OUT OF OUR BODY AS IT WERE AND OUR SOUL NOW
IS IN THE PRESENCE OF GOD. AND THAT'S LESS A LOCATIONAL
STATEMENT THAN IT IS A RELATIONAL STATEMENT. WE WILL
HAVE LOCATION AGAIN WHEN THE SOUL RETURNS TO THE BODY AND THE
BODY IS RESURRECTED.
>DO YOU REMEMBER YEARS AGO THEY CAME UP WITH SOME SOPHISTICATED
MACHINE THAT STOOD OVER THE BODIES OF PEOPLE THAT WERE DYING
AND THEY ACTUALLY SAW SOMETHING DEPARTING THEIR BODY AS THEY
DIED AND THEY IDENTIFIED THAT AS OUR SOUL? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?
>I KIND OF REMEMBER THAT AND THEY USED TO SAY THAT THE SOUL
ACTUALLY HAD WEIGHT AND SO WHEN THE SOUL LEFT THERE WAS A WEIGHT
DIFFERENTIAL. BUT THAT'S NOT THE REALITY. THE REALITY IS THE SOUL
IS NONPHYSICAL, IT'S NON-CORPOREAL AND THEREFORE IT
DOESN'T HAVE LOCATIONAL QUALITIES, IT DOESN'T HAVE
WEIGHT, IT DOESN'T HAVE SUBSTANCE, IT'S IMMATERIAL. AND
THEREFORE TO ASK WHERE A SOUL IS IS TO MAKE A CATEGORY MISTAKE
LIKE ASKING WHAT THE COLOR BLUE TASTES LIKE. A SOUL DOES NOT
HAVE LOCATIONAL QUALITIES UNLESS IT'S IN THE BODY. BUT ONCE IT
LEAVES THE BODY IT CONTINUES TO HAVE AWARENESS IN THE PRESENCE
OF THE LORD AND IT AWAITS THAT TIME THAT JESUS RETURNS A SECOND
TIME AND THEN THE SOUL RETURNS TO A RESURRECTED BODY AND THEN
AGAIN WE WILL HAVE EXTENSION IN SPACE.
>SO IN A SENSE THERE IS A SOUL SLEEP IN A SENSE YOU COULD SEE
IT AS THAT, RIGHT?
>WELL THE REASON WE DON'T SAY THE SOUL SLEEP IS BECAUSE IT
CONTINUES TO HAVE AWARENESS. WE SAY THE BODY SLEEPS. I MEAN
JESUS SAID THAT THE BODY COULD BE ASLEEP IN DEATH BUT THAT'S A
METAPHOR FOR BEING DEAD. BUT THE SOUL IS NEVER SPOKEN OF AS
SLEEPING. IT IS ALWAYS SPOKEN OF AS HAVING CONSCIOUS AWARENESS
AND THE GREATEST EXAMPLE OF COURSE IS THE RICH MAN AND
LAZARUS THAT JESUS TALKS ABOUT IN LUKE CHAPTER 16. BOTH DIE AND
BOTH CONTINUE TO HAVE CONSCIOUS AWARENESS.
>OKAY LET'S SKIP OVER TO WHERE THE RICH MAN WENT. THAT'S ONLY
WHERE HIS SOUL WENT, RIGHT?
>YES.
>AND AGAIN THAT WAS NOT A PLACE LIKE WE SAY THAT WAS IN THE
HEART OF THE EARTH. YOU KNOW WE'RE SO TAUGHT THAT ABRAHAM WAS
ON ONE SIDE OF THIS GREAT RIVER OR SOMETHING IN THE HEART OF THE
EARTH AND THE RICH MAN WAS ON THE OTHER SIDE. AND THEY'VE EVEN
GONE DOWN INTO THE EARTH AND FOUND GREAT HEAT DOWN THERE AND
SO ON AND SO FORTH WHERE HELL IS SUPPOSED TO EXIST. AND THEN YOU
GET INTO JESUS NOT GOING DOWN THERE AND PREACHING TO THOSE THE
SAINTS THAT HAD BEEN HELD THERE UNTIL HE DIED AND WAS
RESURRECTED AND SO FORTH. SO THIS JUST DOES AWAY WITH A LOT
AND I KNOW MY VIEWERS, SOME OF THEM ARE GOING TO BE WRITING ME
ALL KINDS OF LETTERS AS A RESULT OF THIS YOU KNOW.
>WELL THIS IS WHAT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS TELL YOUR VIEWERS IS TO
TEST ALL THINGS IN LIGHT OF SCRIPTURE, HOLD FAST TO WHAT IS
GOOD. I MEAN IT'S NOT WHAT I SAY OR WHAT YOU SAY.
>GOD SAYS IT DOESN'T HE? JUST GO BACK TO THE WORD OF GOD AND SEE
WHAT IT SAYS.
>EXACTLY.
>DON'T ADD TO IT OR TAKE FROM IT. THEY'RE WARNED AGAINST DOING
THAT.
>WELL NOT ONLY THAT BUT JAMES SAYS LET NOT MANY OF YOU BE
TEACHERS BECAUSE WITH TEACHING THERE'S STRICTER JUDGMENT. WE'RE
HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR WHAT WE'RE TEACHING AND OUR TEACHING SHOULD
LINE UP WITH THE WORD OF GOD. BUT GOING BACK TO THE ESSENCE OF
THE ISSUE WHAT HAPPENS IS WHEN WE DIE WE ARE AWAY FROM THE
BODY, WE'RE DISEMBODIED THAT'S WHAT PAUL SAYS ABSENT THE BODY
PRESENT WITH THE LORD. BUT WHEN JESUS RETURNS A SECOND TIME THEN
THE SOUL RETURNS TO THE BODY AND THAT BODY SOUL UNITY IS AGAIN A
PERSON. SO AGAIN IF A WOMAN GIVES BIRTH SHE GIVES BIRTH TO A
BODY SOUL UNITY. THAT'S WHAT IT MEANS TO BE HUMAN AND THAT'S
WHAT WE WILL BE IN RESURRECTION. THE BODY WILL BE RESURRECTED.
AGAIN THAT DOESN'T MEAN EVERY SINGLE ATOM IS RESUSCITATED BUT
IT DOES MEAN THAT THERE'S CONTINUITY BETWEEN THE BODY THAT
WAS AND THE BODY THAT WILL BE.
>WILL WE BE TOGETHER IN THIS DISEMBODIED SPIRIT AND OF COURSE
YOU'VE ATTEMPTED TO ANSWER THE QUESTION OF WHETHER PEOPLE THAT
HAVE GONE ON KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON WITH US. ARE THEY THAT ALERT
IN THIS DISEMBODIED STATE?
>WELL THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD BUT
THERE'S NOTHING IN SCRIPTURE THAT SUGGESTS THAT THEY KNOW
WHAT'S GOING ON ON EARTH.
>I KIND OF DOUBTED THAT ALL ALONG. WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO
KNOW ANYWAY? THEY CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT EVEN IF THEY
SAW THAT WE WERE YOU KNOW EXPERIENCING PAIN OR DOING THIS
OR DOING THAT. THERE THEY ARE WITH THE LORD AND THEY CAN'T
CHANGE THINGS SO.
>THEY'RE ENJOYING THE LORD AND WAITING FOR THE TIME THAT JESUS
APPEARS A SECOND TIME.
>THEY'RE ENJOYING THE LORD AND NOT MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT US.
THAT SOUNDS KIND OF COLD BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY IT IS
FROM WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IT'S TIME FOR ANOTHER BREAK AND WE'LL
BE RIGHT BACK.
>WE FREQUENTLY USE THE PHRASE "HEAVEN ON EARTH." WHAT EXACTLY
DO WE MEAN WHEN WE USE THIS PHRASE? THE WORD HEAVEN
AUTOMATICALLY USHERS OUR MINDS TO A BETTER PLACE - A PLACE OF
PEACE AND HAPPINESS, AND WHERE BAD THINGS NEVER HAPPEN TO US.
WHEN WE USE THIS EXPRESSION WE ARE USUALLY REFERRING TO A TIME
AND EXPERIENCE THAT TEMPORARILY TRANSCENDS THE NEGATIVE THINGS
IN OUR LIFE, WHILE GIVING US A SENSE OF EUPHORIA THAT PROMISES
TO CHANGE OUR WORLD FOR THE BETTER. ALTHOUGH IT MAY LAST A
FEW HOURS, DAYS OR EVEN MONTHS, SOONER OR LATER WE MUST FACE THE
REALITY THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS HEAVEN ON EARTH. IN
HEAVEN ALL TRACES OF EVIL, PAIN, SUFFERING, DISAPPOINTMENT AND
DEATH WILL BE GONE, AND THIS WILL NEVER BE TRUE ON EARTH
UNTIL JESUS CHRIST RETURNS TO RULE AND REIGN OVER A NEW HEAVEN
AND EARTH (2 PET 3:10-13). IN THE MEANTIME WE ARE CAUGHT IN
THE MIDDLE OF THE STRUGGLE BETWEEN GOOD AND EVIL. THIS
CONFLICT HAS RAGED SINCE THE EVIL ONE PERSUADED THE FIRST
WOMAN AND MAN TO FLOUT THE FREE WILL THEIR CREATOR HAD GIVEN
THEM TO PURSUE THEIR APPETITES FOR THE FORBIDDEN FRUIT. IT HAS
BEEN SAID THAT FORBIDDEN FRUIT IS ALWAYS THE SWEETEST, BUT OUR
PROTOTYPES DID NOT FIND IT TO BE SO. INSTEAD, THEIR FAILURE TO
COMPLY WITH THE CREATOR GOD'S INSTRUCTIONS RESULTED IN THE
LOSS OF HEAVEN ON EARTH AND INSTEAD CREATED HINTS OF HELL ON
EARTH THAT WE ARE DESTINED TO LIVE IN. CAN WE CHARGE GOD WITH
EVIL, LACK OF LOVE, GOODNESS OR POWER WHEN WE ARE CAUGHT IN THE
STREAM OF OUR CREATED REPRESENTATIVES' BAD DECISION TO
DO THEIR OWN THING? COULD GOD HAVE OVERLOOKED THEIR
DISOBEDIENCE AND LEFT THEM TO HAVE THEIR CAKE AND EAT IT TO?
NO. TO DO SO HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FORCED TO BETRAY HIMSELF.
INSTEAD, HE CHOSE TO ALLOW HIS FIRST CHILDREN TO ABUSE THEIR
FREEDOM, BUT HIS LOVE AND COMPASSION COMPELLED HIM TO HAVE
A BACKUP PLAN OF REDEMPTION FOR THEM AND ALL TO FOLLOW THEM. IT
COST THE CREATOR GOD HIS ONLY SON, WHO AGREED TO BECOME THE
REDEMPTIVE SACRIFICE SO THAT SOMEDAY, WE WHO RECEIVE HIM AS
OUR REDEEMER, WILL BE ABLE TO LIVE IN HEAVEN ON EARTH FOREVER
(REV 21:1-5).
>THANKS FOR STAYING WITH US ON TIME FOR HOPE MY GUEST IS HANK
HANEGRAAFF THE BIBLE ANSWER MAN AND WE'RE CONTINUING AND WILL
CONCLUDE DISCUSSING HIS BOOK TITLED AFTERLIFE. AND HANK WE'RE
TALKING ABOUT HELL ACTUALLY SO LET'S LOOK AT THE IDEA OF HADES
AND GAHANNA, THOSE TWO WORDS USED FOR HELL. AND THE RICH MAN
LIFTED UP HIS EYES IN HADES.
>YES.
>YES SO OKAY THAT'S A TEMPORARY STATE AND IF WE GO BY WHAT WE'VE
SAID ABOUT HEAVEN THEN HE'S NOT WITH THE LORD. YOU KNOW WHEN I
WAS UNDER CONVICTION COMING TO KNOW THE LORD THE ONE THING THAT
STILL STANDS OUT WITH ME AND WHAT I WAS EXPERIENCING KNOWING
I WAS LOST AT THE TIME WAS THAT SEPARATION BETWEEN ME AND THE
LORD. THAT FEAR THAT HE WASN'T GOING TO ACCEPT ME AND THAT I
WAS GOING TO BE FOREVER SEPARATED FROM HIM. THAT'S AN
AWFUL THING TO THINK ABOUT. BUT THE HOLY SPIRIT HAS TO CREATE
THAT OR YOU KNOW AND GIVE US THAT AWARENESS.
>C. S. LEWIS SAID SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. HE SAID THAT THEY'RE
ONLY TWO KINDS OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. THOSE WHO SAY TO GOD THY
WILL BE DONE. THEY WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD THAT
YOU'RE DESCRIBING. AND THOSE TO WHOM GOD IN THE END SAYS THY
WILL BE DONE. WHICH IS TO SAY THAT IF WE DO NOT WANT TO HAVE A
RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD HE RATIFIES OUR CHOICE NOT ONLY IN
LIFE BUT IN THE LIFE TO COME AND THAT IS WHAT HELL IS. IT IS
FOREVER BEING SEPARATED FROM THE GLORY AND THE GOODNESS OF GOD
FOR ALL ETERNITY SHUT OUT FROM THE PRESENCE OF GOD SAYS PAUL IN
THESSALONIANS. THAT'S WHAT HELL IS TO BE, SEPARATED FROM GOD.
BUT THAT IS GOD CONTINUING TO SUSTAIN PEOPLE IN EXISTENCE EVEN
IF THEY DO NOT WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM.
>AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT HAVE TROUBLE WITH THAT BUT WHAT'S
MISSING IS THEY CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE FINITENESS OF
WHAT THEY HAVE COMMITTED AGAINST GOD THAT IT HAS NO LIMITS SO
THEREFORE HOW IS IT GOING TO BE LIMITED IN HIM IN PUNISHMENT FOR
THAT IS THE WAY I SEE IT.
>YES. WHAT'S ULTIMATELY TRUE ABOUT HEAVEN AND HELL IS THAT IF
WE DESIRE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD WE WILL HAVE THAT
EVERLASTINGLY. IF WE DO NOT DESIRE A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD
THAT WILL BE RATIFIED FOR ALL ETERNITY AS WELL. GOD DOES NOT
RUB OUT THE CROWNING JEWELS OF HIS CREATION. HE CONTINUES TO
SUSTAIN THEM IN EXISTENCE. SO ULTIMATELY.
>HE DOESN'T WANT THOSE THAT DO NOT WANT HIM.
>YES AND G. K CHESTERSON SAID THIS; HE SAID THAT HELL IS GOD'S
GREAT COMPLEMENT TO THE DIGNITY OF HUMAN FREEDOM AND THE
DEFINITIVE NATURE OF HUMAN CHOICE. WITHOUT HELL THERE'S NO
CHOICE. THE RIGHTEOUS WOULD INHERIT A COUNTERFEIT HEAVEN AND
THE UNRIGHTEOUS WOULD BE INCARCERATED IN HEAVEN AGAINST
THEIR WILL WHICH WOULD BE A TORMENT WORSE THAN HELL. THE
IMPENITENT DON'T WANT A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND GOD IS
NOT A COSMIC *** WHO FORCES HIMSELF ON PEOPLE.
>HE EVEN ACCOMMODATES THEM.
>HE ALLOWS THEM WHAT THEY WANT.
>YES BUT THEN ONCE THEY GET THERE THEY CAN'T CHANGE THEIR
MIND. THEY DON'T GET THAT SECOND CHANCE.
>THEY DON'T WANT TO CHANGE THEIR MIND. THE IMPENITENT DON'T WANT
A RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD AND WHAT HAPPENS IN HELL IS.
>IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE PROBABLY.
>WELL TRULY SO BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENS WITH THOSE WHO ARE
REDEEMED IS THAT THE AMAGODAY THE IMAGE OF GOD IS RESTORED SO
THAT WE CAN HAVE FELLOWSHIP WITH GOD. WHAT HAPPENS WITH THOSE WHO
ARE NOT REDEEMED IS THAT THE IMAGE OF GOD IS ERASED SO THAT
THEY BECOME AS IT WERE LIKE BRUTE BEASTS ONLY TO BE CAUGHT
AND DESTROYED AS PETER PUTS IT.
>IT REALLY JUST THOUGH GIVES ME A GREAT DESIRE TO SEE MY LOVED
ONES TURN TO THE LORD AND DESIRE THE LORD AND ACTUALLY PRAY THAT
THAT. THAT'S WHERE IT HAS TO BEGIN AND YOU'RE EXACTLY RIGHT
ON THAT. IT HAS TO BEGIN WITH THEM DESIRING THE LORD. YOU
CAN'T FORCE THAT ON ANYONE. THAT'S A WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
OF GOD.
>WELL GOD COULD HAVE CREATED THE WORLD IN SUCH A WAY THAT
EVERYBODY WOULD LOVE HIM BUT IF THAT WAS THE WAY HE CREATED THE
WORLD LOVE WOULD BE RENDERED MEANINGLESS. LOVE ALWAYS HAS TO
BE VOLITIONAL. IT HAS TO BE OF THE WILL. SO GOD CREATED THE
POTENTIAL FOR EVIL BY GRANTING US FREEDOM OF CHOICE. HUMAN
BEINGS ACTUALIZE THAT EVIL BY THEIR CHOICES. SO GOD DID NOT
CREATE EVIL BUT HE DID CREATE THE POTENTIAL FOR EVIL BECAUSE
WITHOUT CHOICE LOVE IS RENDERED MEANINGLESS.
>AND OF COURSE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS THAT THERE IS A
TEMPORARY HEAVEN AS IT WERE AND A TEMPORARY HELL UNTIL CHRIST
RETURNS THE SECOND TIME SO THAT'S OUR MAJOR HOPE RIGHT
THERE ISN'T IT? THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TO LOOK FORWARD TO NO MATTER
WHERE WE ARE. WHETHER WE'RE HERE OR WHETHER WE HAVE PASSED WE ARE
STILL GROANING FOR THAT BODY AND THAT CONNECTION OF THE BODY AND
SOUL TO BE PUT BACK TOGETHER. SO WHERE DOES THAT BRING US FOR THE
PRESENT HANK?
>WE NEED TO LIVE OUR LIVES WITH ETERNITY IN MIND. CHRIST CAME TO
GIVE US LIFE TO THE FULL IN THE PRESENT SO IT'S NOT JUST
SOMETHING WE WAIT FOR WHEN WE ARE RESURRECTED BUT WE CAN
EXPERIENCE CHRIST NOW. SO WE CAN EXPERIENCE THE LIFE OF CHRIST
NOW. WE CAN AS PETER SAID BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE
BUT WE ULTIMATELY HAVE A HOPE AND THAT IS JESUS WILL APPEAR A
SECOND TIME JUST AS HE PROMISED HE WOULD AND WHEN HE DOES ALL
THINGS WILL BE PUT TO RIGHT AND THEN WE WILL EXPERIENCE WHAT WE
WERE DESIGNED FOR, FELLOWSHIP WITH THE VERY ONE WHO KNIT US
TOGETHER IN OUR MOTHER'S WOMBS.
>SO THAT IS THE WAY WITH THIS IDEA WE COULD GET BORED IN
HEAVEN.
>OH WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE OMNISCIENT.
>WE WILL BE EVERYTHING BUT BORED.
>OH WE WILL LEARN AND GROW AND DEVELOP. HUMANITY CANNOT BEAR
THE BURDEN OF OMNISCIENCE SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO LEARN
AND GROW AND DEVELOP AND FOREVER EXPLORE THE GLORY AND GRANDEUR
OF THE ONE WHO REDEEMED US BY HIS GRACE.
>YOU KNOW WHAT JOHN ELDREDGE SAYS. HE SAYS THERE'S NOT GOING
TO BE CHURCH ALL THE TIME. (LAUGHTER).
>WE'RE GOING TO BE EXERCISING OUR GIFTS.
>YES WE'LL BE ENJOYING. THERE WILL BE THAT LOVE, JOY AND PEACE
THAT I HAD SUCH A SENSE OF.
>NOT ONLY WITH GOD BUT WITH ONE ANOTHER. WE WILL BE ABLE TO
APPRECIATE ONE ANOTHER.
>WITH ONE ANOTHER YES. IT LITERALLY WILL INVADE THAT SPACE
IS WHAT I SEE IT AS AND THAT WILL BE PART OF THE ENJOYMENT OF
HEAVEN. THE WAY WE CAN KNOW WHEN WE PASS FROM THIS LIFE THAT
WE'RE GOING TO BE RESURRECTED AND GET TO ENJOY THE NEW HEAVEN
AND THE NEW EARTH IS THAT CHRIST AROSE FROM THE GRAVE.
>YES THAT IS THE CENTRAL PILLAR IN THE ARCH OF CHRISTIANITY.
>THAT'S THE CENTRAL PILLAR. IN THE MEANTIME WE ARE TO ENCOURAGE
PEOPLE AND WE ARE TO BE ABOUT THE GREAT COMMISSION RIGHT?
>YES GREAT COMMISSION AND GREAT COMMANDMENT. AND ALSO THE
CULTURAL MANDATE, WE ARE TO TEND THE GARDEN THAT GOD HAS BECAUSE
THIS GARDEN IS NOT GOING TO BE SCRAPPED ITS GOING TO BE RENEWED
AND SO WE'RE CARETAKERS OF THAT GARDEN. AND WE ARE CALLED TO BE
AMBASSADORS FOR JESUS CHRIST. MOST OF US ARE SECRET AGENTS WHO
HAVE NEVER BLOWN OUR COVER BEFORE THE REGENERATE WORLD BUT
WERE CALLED TO BE AMBASSADORS FOR JESUS CHRIST SO THAT THE
WILL AND PURPOSES OF GOD MIGHT BE KNOWN OR MANIFESTED THROUGH
US TO A LOST AND SEARCHING WORLD.
>IF YOU'VE EVER ORDERED A BOOK FROM TIME FOR HOPE YOU NEED TO
ORDER THIS BOOK AND YOU WILL FIND A LOT OF ANSWERS THAT I AM
SURE THAT YOU HAVE THOUGHT ABOUT AND WONDERED ABOUT. AND HANK
THANKS FOR COMING.
>SO NICE TO BE HERE.
>AND SHARING WITH US AND I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS TO SHARE WITH
YOU FROM OUR VIEWERS AND THIS ONE SAYS.
>WE HAVE TAKEN THIS PRAYER REQUEST TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER
BUT I AM STILL AND SOMEONE WROTE ME ABOUT THIS AND TRIED TO
DEBATE WITH ME ABOUT IT, I AM STILL SAYING YES GOD DOES
PERFORM MIRACLES AND HE DOES RAISE PEOPLE UP THAT ARE DYING.
AND YES YOU CAN PRAY FOR HIM TO DO THAT BUT GOD HAS HIS OWN WILL
IN EVERY SITUATION AND SO YOU MUST ULTIMATELY SURRENDER TO
WHATEVER GOD CHOOSES TO DO IN A SITUATION. BUT IT DOESN'T KEEP
YOU FROM BELIEVING THAT IF HE SO WILLS THAT HE CAN MIRACULOUSLY
RAISE YOUR FIANCÉE UP. AND THEN I MOVE OVER AND THIS ONE READS
>AND TRULY I DO AND I'M GLAD THAT YOU CAN SEE IT, THAT IT
COMES THROUGH ON THE PROGRAM. I THANK THE LORD FOR YOU. I
APPRECIATE THAT AND I WOULD ASK THAT YOU PRAY FOR ME AND OUR
STAFF AND FOR THE MINISTRY OF TIME FOR HOPE. IT'S JUST GONE
GLOBAL BY THE WAY. WE WERE ADVISED OF THAT A FEW WEEKS AGO
AND IT'S SUCH A BLESSING, WE COUNT IT SUCH A BLESSING TO HAVE
THIS MINISTRY OF TIME FOR HOPE.
>YOU CAN GET A COPY OF TODAY'S BOOK FOR A CONTRIBUTION OF ANY
AMOUNT TO TIME FOR HOPE. FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS ON YOUR SCREEN.
>THANKS FOR WATCHING TIME FOR HOPE. .