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IT LEFT ME VERY INTERESTED IN CRIMINAL JUSTICE.
I'D LOVE TO GO STUDY IT IN THE FUTURE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST, IT WAS REALLY FUN TO GO
OUT INTO THE FIELD
AND EXPERIENCE WHAT YOU'RE TAUGHT IN CLASSROOMS.
>> AND YOU WANT TO PURSUE A CAREER IN LAW ENFORCEMENT.
WHY WOULD YOU LIKE TO PURSUE THAT CAREER?
>> I'D LIKE TO PURSUE A CAREER IN THE FIELD
OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE MOSTLY BECAUSE I'D
LIKE TO HELP THESE INMATES.
THEY'RE PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU AND I.
THEY LIVE AMONGST US.
WE INTERACT WITH THEM EVERY DAY.
AND YOU MIGHT NOT EVEN KNOW IT.
BUT I'D REALLY LIKE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY
TO HELP THESE PEOPLE ENSURE THAT WE KEEP THEM FROM GOING BACK.
BECAUSE I WANT TO WORK SIDE-BY-SIDE WITH THESE PEOPLE
AND MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR LIVES.
>> WHAT DID YOU SEE OR WHAT DID YOU EXPERIENCE
OR WHAT WERE YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT AFTER THIS WAS OVER IN WAYS
THAT YOU HADN'T EXPECTED?
>> THE WAY, I HADN'T REALLY EXPECTED THE LIVING CONDITIONS
TO BE WHAT THEY WERE.
I'D ALWAYS KIND OF HAD AN IMAGE IN MY MIND,
YOU KNOW, PAINTED BY THE MEDIA.
BUT TO ACTUALLY GO INTO THESE INSTITUTIONS AND SEE
THAT THESE PEOPLE DO EVERYTHING WE DO IN OUR DAILY LIVES,
JUST WITHIN ONE SMALL CONFINED SPACE, IT REALLY, IT GETS YOU.
BECAUSE YOU WONDER HOW THEY CAN DO IT.
IT'S SOMETHING TO SEE.
>> CONNIE, I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHEN THE STUDENTS GO
THROUGH THE INSTITUTIONS AND THEN COME OUT
AND THEN YOU HAVE DISCUSSION AFTERWARD,
WHAT DOES THAT DISCUSSION INVOLVE?
>> I ALWAYS GET THE IMPRESSION
THAT IT'S A VERY LIFE-CHANGING EXPERIENCE FOR STUDENTS.
THEY ARE OFTENTIMES REALLY STRUCK, AS TREVOR SAID,
BY THE LIVING CONDITIONS.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU
OR THE VIEWERS CAN IMAGINE LIVING YOUR LIFE FOR YEARS
AT A TIME IN A SIX BY NINE CELL WITH A BUNK BED, A TOILET,
AND ANOTHER PERSON, A STRANGER.
IT'S REALLY SOBERING TO GO IN THAT AND IMAGINE,
THIS IS ALL YOUR WORLDLY POSSESSIONS IN A SIX
BY NINE CELL, WHICH IS A BOOK AND TWO PICTURES
AND SOME COMMISSARY ITEMS.
THAT'S REALLY SOBERING.
AND I THINK LEARNING THAT FOR MANY OF THE INMATES THERE,
THEY'RE ILLITERATE OR THEY HAVE A THIRD GRADE READING LEVEL
BECAUSE THAT'S THE YEAR AT WHICH THEY DIDN'T HAVE
TO GO TO SCHOOL ANYMORE.
WHEN WE HEAR STUDENTS ABOUT HOW AN INMATE IS HOUSED IN A UNIT
AND THERE WAS SOME DISCUSSION
ABOUT WHETHER HE SHOULD BE HOUSED WITH HIS FATHER
OR HIS BROTHER, THAT'S LIFE-CHANGING.
YOU KNOW, THEY REALLY GET TO SEE IT FROM A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVE.
THEY SEE THEM AS HUMAN BEINGS,
NOT AS SOME BAD GUY WE JUST GET TO THROW AWAY.
AND THEY GET TO SEE THEM AS PEOPLE WHO COME BACK.
>> SO WHAT ARE SOME OF THE COMMENTS
THAT YOU HEAR FROM THE STUDENTS?
CAN YOU REMEMBER SOME OF THE SPECIFIC COMMENTS
THAT THEY'VE MADE TO YOU?
>> THEY'LL SAY, YOU KNOW,
I NEVER IMAGINED IT WOULD BE LIKE THIS.
OR, SOMETIMES THEY'LL COMMENT ON THE CONDITIONS OF CONFINEMENT
LIKE HOW THE GUARDS TREAT THEM.
THEY'LL COME OUT AND SAY, WOW THAT GUARD,
THAT SEEMED REALLY INTENSE.
IT SEEMED LIKE THAT'S A VIOLENT PLACE.
AND THEY DON'T', THEY DON'T REALLY APPRECIATE
THAT IN ADVANCE OF IT.
>> AND SO YOU TAKE THEM ON A BUS TOUR,
AND YOU GO TO HOW MANY FACILITIES IN A GIVEN DAY?
>> MAYBE TWO OR THREE.
THIS TIME I THINK WE WENT TO FIFTEEN FACILITIES IN ALL
OVER THE TWO WEEK PERIOD.
IT'S THREE DAYS A WEEK.
IT'S, YOU KNOW, TWO DAYS, THREE DAYS A WEEK.
BUT IT'S AN EIGHT TO FIVE DAY.
WE WERE ON A BUS GOING TO ONE FACILITY AND THEN ANOTHER.
AND WE GO THROUGH THE, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE PROCESS.
WE ARRIVE AT THE INSTITUTION.
WE'VE GIVEN OUR BACKGROUND INFORMATION IN ADVANCE
SO THAT WE'RE SECURITY SCREENED.
BUT WE GO THROUGH SECURITY SCREENING
AND TYPICALLY HAVE AN ORIENTATION.
WE'LL VISIT THE HOUSING UNITS,
THE EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS, IF ANY.
WE'LL SEE THE SECURE PERIMETERS.
OFTENTIMES WE'LL SEE THE SHU, WHICH IS LIKE THE HOLE.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S PRETTY POWERFUL.
>> SO WHEN YOU MENTIONED SHU, THAT'S AN ACRONYM S-H-U
FOR SEGREGATED HOUSING UNIT?
DESCRIBE THAT FOR US.
>> SHU IS SOMETIMES CALLED [INAUDIBLE] OR THE HOLE.
AND IT IS TYPICALLY DISCIPLINARY HOUSING.
IT'S TYPICALLY ONE MAN CELLS, SIX TO NINE FEET.
AND INMATES IN OUR STATE CAN BE THERE
FOR QUITE LENGTHY PERIODS OF TIME.
AND WE HAVE A TON OF THEM.
IN THE US WE HAVE ABOUT 75,000 INMATES IN THOSE TYPES OF CELLS.
AND MANY OF THEM SERVE YEARS IN THOSE CONDITIONS.
AND BY COMPARISON, IN EUROPE THEY MIGHT HAVE A DOZEN
IN A GIVEN YEAR.
IN THE US WE HAVE 75,000.
AND THE RESEARCH SAYS THOSE ARE PRETTY ATROCIOUS CONDITIONS
FOR A HUMAN BEING TO BE IN.
THEY'RE ISOLATED 23 HOURS A DAY FROM HUMAN CONTACT.
THEY'RE FED THROUGH A SLOT.
THEY ARE ESCORTED OUTSIDE
FOR APPROXIMATELY AN HOUR A DAY, ALONE.
AND SO WHAT WILL HAPPEN THERE IS THEY SLIP THEIR HANDS
OUT THROUGH THE SLOT.
THEY'RE CUFFED.
AND THEN TWO GUARDS WILL ESCORT THEM
TO ESSENTIALLY AN OUTSIDE CAGE WHERE THEY'RE LEFT
TO PROGRAM ALONE FOR AN HOUR.
BUT THERE'S NO HUMAN INTERACTION.
AND PSYCHOLOGICALLY THAT'S A PRETTY DAMAGING WAY
TO BE CONFINED.
>> WOULD THIS BE CONSIDERED THE EQUIVALENT
OF SOLITARY CONFINEMENT?
>> EXACTLY.
>> AND IN THE OLD MOVIES, THEY SHOW THEY'RE IN THE DARK.
THEY'RE IN A HOLE, LITERALLY IN A HOLE IN THE DARK.
AND SO IT'S NOT QUITE THAT DRACONIAN.
>> IT'S NOT QUITE THAT DRACONIAN.
TYPICALLY THERE WILL BE A SMALL SLOT, A WINDOW SLOT,
SO THEY CAN HAVE SOME SUNSHINE.
BUT THE WINDOW IS TYPICALLY OPAQUE.
YOU CAN'T SEE THROUGH IT.
BUT THERE IS LIGHT TYPICALLY, NOT ALWAYS.
BUT THERE WOULD BE FLUORESCENT LIGHT, SO THEY WOULD BE
ON DURING THE DAY SO THE INMATE IS NOT ISOLATED
IN THE DARK IN A HOLE.
BUT BEING, YOU KNOW, IN A ROOM
BY YOURSELF 23 HOURS A DAY FOR THREE YEARS.
INMATES WHEN THEY GET OUT, THEY SAY THAT JUST BEING THIS CLOSE
TO ANOTHER HUMAN BEING MAKES THEM VERY UNCOMFORTABLE.
THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO INTERACT,
AND THEY CAN BE KIND OF EXPLOSIVE.
AND IN CALIFORNIA, WE CAN REDUCE AN INMATE'S SENTENCE
WHEN THEY'RE DOING TIME
BY SOMETHING CALLED GOOD TIME WORK TIME.
SO IF THEY'RE GETTING ALONG, PLAYING WELL WITH OTHERS,
THEY GET A SHORTER SENTENCE.
THE ONES WHO MISBEHAVE END UP IN THE SHU AND THEY QUOTE MAX OUT,
MEANING THEY SERVE THE ENTIRETY OF THEIR PRISON SENTENCE
IN CONDITIONS LIKE SOLITARY CONFINEMENT.
BUT WHEN THEY'RE DONE WITH THAT,
WE HAVE NO LEGAL MEANS TO KEEP THEM.
SO THEY'RE RELEASED DIRECTLY INTO THE PUBLIC
FROM THE SHU SETTINGS.
WHICH IS A PROBLEM.
>> AND TREVOR, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THE SHU
OR SOLITARY ENVIRONMENT.
>> THE ENVIRONMENT OF SHU IS VERY DEPRESSING TO SEE.
YOU GO INTO THESE ENVIRONMENTS, AND IT'S OFTEN DARK.
THERE ARE LIGHTS, BUT IT'S PRETTY DARK IN THESE BUILDINGS.
YOU SEE THE INMATES THAT ARE LAYING IN THERE.
THEY SEEM VERY DEPRESSED, YOU KNOW, JUST LAYING AROUND.
AND YOU GET THE FEELING THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING
TO THEM IS NOT GOOD FOR THEM.
AND I REALLY DON'T SEE ANY VALUE
IN ISOLATING THESE INMATES LIKE THAT.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU SEE THEM, IT'S REALLY SAD TO SEE, YOU KNOW.
>> AND CONNIE, THE INMATES END UP IN THE SHU
FOR DISCIPLINARY REASONS.
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> WHAT KINDS OF THINGS WOULD INVOLVE PUTTING THEM
INTO THE SHU?
WHAT KINDS OF BEHAVIOR?
>> WELL ON THE HIGHER END YOU WOULD HAVE, YOU KNOW,
AN INMATE WHO STABS ANOTHER INMATE
OR ASSAULTS A GUARD, THINGS LIKE THAT.
VIOLENT OFFENSE COULD CERTAINLY LAND ONE IN THE SHU
TO PROTECT THE INSTITUTION, RIGHT.
TO MAINTAIN THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF AN INSTITUTION.
BUT IN SOME FACILITIES YOU CAN GET A SHU ASSIGNMENT FOR JUST,
YOU KNOW, NOT OBEYING AN ORDER A QUICKLY.
SO FOR A MINOR INFRACTION.
OFTENTIMES YOU'LL SEE AROUND AN INSTITUTION THAT IF YOU COME
INTO THIS AREA, THEY'LL BE RED LINE ON THE GROUND.
IF YOU STEP OVER THIS LINE, THAT'S AN INFRACTION.
SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULD GET THEM IN THE SHU.
AND IT VARIES BY INSTITUTION.
THE HIGHER LEVEL INSTITUTIONS TYPICALLY THE SHU POPULATION
IS VIOLENT.
LOWER LEVEL INSTITUTIONS,
TYPICALLY THE SHU POPULATION IS JUST ANNOYING, RIGHT.
THEY DON'T GET ALONG WITH THE GUARDS.
AND THEY'LL END UP THERE.
>> IN TERMS OF THE OVERALL EXPERIENCE.
STUDENTS THAT TAKE THIS CLASS AND THEN GO
ON IN OTHER CLASSES HAVE A REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE
THAT THEY WOULDN'T HAVE HAD OTHERWISE.
HOW DOES IT AFFECT THEIR COURSEWORK FROM THAT POINT ON?
>> TYPICALLY STUDENTS TAKE IT IN THEIR LAST YEAR
OR THEIR LAST SEMESTER.
SO IT'S THE CULMINATING MOMENT.
BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, FOR ME I THINK IT IS ONE
OF THE MOST VALUABLE THINGS I DO HERE.
I THINK IT'S VERY LIFE-CHANGING FOR THEM.
AND THEY GO INTO IT WHETHER THEY'RE GOING
TO BE A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER
OR A CORRECTIONAL OFFICER OR SOCIAL WORKER.
OR WORK IN A BANK.
I THINK IT GIVES THEM ANOTHER VIEW OF,
YOU KNOW, THE HUMAN CONDITION.
>> RIGHT, AND AS FAR AS THE TRAVELS THROUGHOUT THE AREA,
THIS IS LARGELY SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA?
>> IT'S LARGELY SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.
ALTHOUGH I'M DEVELOPING ONE FOR THE SOUTH.
IN TWO YEARS I'D LIKE TO TAKE A GROUP OF STUDENTS FROM GEORGIA
TO LOUISIANA AND POSSIBLY TEXAS TO VISIT SOME OF THE PRISONS
IN THE BIBLE BELT DOWN THERE.
>> AND WHY WOULD THAT BE AN IMPORTANT EXPERIENCE?
>> WE SEE THE CALIFORNIA PRISONS,
WHICH DEFINITELY HAS ITS SET OF PROBLEMS
AND ITS PATH TO SOLUTIONS.
BUT THE ISSUES IN THE SOUTH ARE DIFFERENT.
THERE ARE SOME PRISONS IN THE US SOUTH THAT ARE HISTORICALLY SOME
OF THE MOST BLOODY PRISONS, YOU KNOW, IN THE COUNTRY.
AND THERE'S ONE, ANGOLA, FOR EXAMPLE WHERE INMATES
WHEN THEY'RE INCARCERATED THERE, THEY'RE TOLD
BY GUARDS YOU BETTER GET YOURSELF A WEAPON.
AND IT'S PRETTY NOTORIOUSLY VIOLENT AND BLOODY PLACE.
THEY'VE DONE SOME WORK TO CLEAN IT UP A BIT.
THEY'VE HAD SOME CHANGES IN ADMINISTRATION AND THINGS,
WHICH ARE CLEANING IT UP.
BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE INVALUABLE FOR STUDENTS
TO SEE THE CONTRAST BETWEEN CALIFORNIA AND ANOTHER STATE.
>> WELL CONNIE AND TREVOR I WANT
TO THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US.
WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME.
THE TIME JUST FLIES BACK IN THESE INTERVIEWS.
AND CONNIE I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR INTRODUCING STUDENTS
LIKE TREVOR TO THE REALITIES OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM,
BECAUSE PEOPLE LIKE TREVOR WILL BE WORKING
IN THAT FIELD IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR WORK AND YOUR RESEARCH.
AND TREVOR, I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY
AND PROVIDING US WITH YOUR INSIGHT.
AND I WANT TO WISH YOU GOOD LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE ENDEAVORS.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU.
>> YOU'RE WELCOME.
AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US ON TALKING POINT.
I HOPE YOU'VE LEARNED SOMETHING TODAY.
I KNOW I HAVE.
PLEASE JOIN US AGAIN FOR ANOTHER EDITION IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
UNTIL THEN, I'M DAVE KELLY.
HAVE A NICE DAY.
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