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>> THE U.S. SECRETARY OF AGRICULTURE, TOM VILSACK,
SIGNALED THIS WEEK THAT HIS AGENCY IS ABOUT TO GIVE THE
OKAY TO VALLEY MEAT COMPANY TO OWN A HORSE
SLAUGHTERHOUSE AND PROCESSING FACILITY NEAR
ROSWELL. VILSACK SAYS THE FEDERAL
MEASURE BANNING COMMERCIAL HORSE SLAUGHTER HAS LONG
SINCE EXPIRED, AND INDICATED THAT THE USDA HAS LITTLE
CHOICE BUT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PLANT IS OPERATING
SAFELY, AND THEN ISSUE THE LICENSE.
OPPONENTS, HOWEVER, SAY SLAUGHTERING HORSES IS A
MORAL ISSUE AS WELL AS ONE OF FOOD SAFETY.
PROPONENTS SAY THE FACILITY IS THE MOST HUMANE OPTION TO
DEAL WITH HORSES THAT ARE UNWANTED WHO OFTEN END UP
SHIPPED TO MEXICAN SLAUGHTERHOUSES, RIGHT FROM
NEW MEXICO, WITH INHUMANE CONDITIONS.
NOW, DANIEL -- >> I'M SHOCKED THAT YOU'RE
COMING TO ME FIRST. >> SHOCKING.
BUT HERE IS THE INTERESTING PART, IT'S SPLIT
REPUBLICANS, BIG-TIME REPUBLICANS HERE.
STEVE PEARCE IS PRO. IT'S IN HIS DISTRICT, HE
WANTS THE JOBS, SAYS HE'LL SUPPORT IT.
OUR GOVERNOR HAS BEEN FIRM SINCE EARLY SAYING THIS
SHOULD NOT HAPPEN IN NEW MEXICO.
WHO IS GOING TO WIN THE DAY HERE?
>> WELL, I DON'T WHO IS GOING TO WIN THE DAY.
I THINK PEARCE SHOULD WIN THE DAY.
I MEAN, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULDN'T BE DECIDING WHAT
YOUR BUSINESS CAN OR CAN'T BE.
IF THE LAW SAYS YOU CAN OPEN, OPEN THE BUSINESS.
IF THE GUY CAN'T SELL ANY MEAT, OR HE VIOLATES THE
LAWS, YOU CLOSE HIM DOWN. BUT THIS IS INSANE.
I MEAN, THERE IS SO MUCH -- I WAS DOING A LOT OF READING
OUTSIDE OF THE STUFF THAT YOU GUYS SENT US, GENE.
THERE IS SO MUCH DATA THAT SUPPORTS THAT WE NEED THIS
IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY. THESE HORSES ARE STARVING TO
DEATH. THEY'RE BEING MISTREATED.
AND WHAT'S INTERESTING IS, I FIND THAT MOST OF THE PEOPLE
THAT ARE OPPOSED TO THIS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU STOP AND
ASK THEM, HAVE YOU EVER OWNED A HORSE, THEY TELL
YOU, NO. A HORSE IS NOT LIKE A PUPPY.
YOU DON'T TAKE IT TO YOUR HOUSE AND BUY A LITTLE DOG
FOOD. IT'S THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS
OF DOLLARS TO CARE FOR THESE ANIMALS.
AND THE ALTERNATIVE RIGHT NOW IS WE'RE PUTTING THEM ON
TRUCKS AND SHIPPING THEM ACROSS THE BORDER, AND WE
KNOW IT'S NOT BEING DONE HUMANELY.
SO I THINK THE GOVERNOR'S WRONG.
THE LAW SAYS THAT THEY SHOULD OPEN THIS.
PEOPLE SHOULD LET THEM OPEN IT, MAKE SURE THEY FOLLOW
THE RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT ARE IN PLACE TODAY.
I JUST FIND IT INTERESTING, YOU KNOW, WHICH WILL STIR
EVERYBODY UP WITH THIS COMMENT, I JUST FIND IT
INTERESTING, GENE, THAT WE TALKED ABOUT THIS INHUMANE
AND THE SLAUGHTER OF THESE ANIMALS, IT SOUNDS TO ME
LIKE THIS IS CHOICE ISSUE, THAT THE OWNER OF THE HORSE
HAS THE RIGHT TO MAKE A CHOICE.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE SOME PEOPLE ARE FOR CHOICE IN
SOME ISSUES, AND OPPOSED TO CHOICE IN OTHER ISSUES, AND
I'M NOT SURE HOW THAT WORKS OUT.
>> THAT HAPPENS, THAT HAPPENS IN THIS WORLD.
IT'S INTERESTING. DIANE, LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT
THIS. I HEAR DAN'S POINT, BUT ON
THE OTHER SIDE OF IT, THE GOVERNMENT DOES SAY TO MANY
BUSINESSES WHAT THEY CAN AND CANNOT DO.
ABSOLUTELY THEY DO. THERE IS NO QUESTION ABOUT
THIS WHATSOEVER. AND PUBLIC OPINION HERE IN
THIS STATE IN POLLING IS RUNNING VERY STRONGLY
OPPOSED TO THIS. WHETHER THAT SHOULD MEAN
SOMETHING TO THIS BUSINESS OWNER IS UP FOR DEBATE,
AGAIN. BUT, AGAIN, HOW IMPACTFUL
SHOULD THE PUBLIC COMMENT BE ON THIS?
DOES IT MEAN SOMETHING TO YOU?
>> YES, IT DOES. I WILL TELL YOU THAT I
PERSONALLY FOUND IT ABHORRENT, BUT THAT'S AN
INITIAL REACTION. I THINK ANY OF US WHO HAVE
OWNED HORSES OR HAD HORSES OR BEEN AROUND HORSES, THEY
REALLY ARE SOMETHING SPECIAL TO US.
THEY'RE NOT JUST A WORK ANIMAL, EVEN THOUGH THAT IS
VERY MUCH PART OF OUR TRADITION.
BUT WHAT CONCERNS ME THE MOST IS IN THE READING THAT
I'VE BEEN DOING IS TWO THINGS.
ONE IS THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT NO LONGER FUNDS
THE INSPECTIONS OF THESE PLANTS, AND THAT'S WHY THE
INDUSTRY CLOSED DOWN AND WENT AWAY IN THE LAST TEN
YEARS. >> SURE.
>> AND THE SECOND THING IS THAT THE COMPANY, AS I
UNDERSTAND IT, THAT'S ADVOCATING FOR THIS HAS
ACTUALLY BEEN PENALIZED AND HAD SOME PROBLEMS IN THE
PAST ABOUT NOT COMPLYING AT THAT TIME.
>> THAT WAS WHEN THEY WERE. SLAUGHTERING CATTLE; COWS.
>> CATTLE, RIGHT. >> THEY HAD A BIG PILE OF
AWFUL, THE INNARDS OF ANIMALS, PILED UP BEHIND THE
THING, AND THE WASTE WAS A PROBLEM.
>> AND THAT WAS ENVIRONMENTAL.
>> THAT SEEMS TO BE AN INDICATION WITH ALL OF THESE
HORSE SLAUGHTER PLANTS, THEY ALWAYS HAVE THESE PROBLEMS
IT SEEMS LIKE. >> BUT THEN AGAIN, I LOOKED
AT IT AND I SAW ALL THE PICTURES OF THE GUY, THE
VET, WHOSE HORSES WERE -- HE WAS JUST LEAVING THEM TO
STARVE. SO I THINK THERE MUST BE A
WAY THAT WE CAN DO THIS THAT -- BUT I DON'T KNOW --
BUT NOT UNLESS YOU HAVE, AND THIS IS REALLY TERRIBLE,
PEOPLE WILL YELL AT ME, UNLESS YOU HAVE THE
REGULATION TO SAFEGUARD THE PUBLIC AND THE ANIMALS
THEMSELVES. >> THAT'S RIGHT.
IT'S TRICKY. LAURA, ON THAT POINT, FOOD
SAFETY, WHAT WE'RE GOING TO BE PROCESSING HERE
OSTENSIBLY ARE HORSES THAT HAVE HAD DRUGS ADMINISTERED.
THEY'RE RACING HORSES. NO ONE IS QUITE SURE WHAT
THE MARKET PLACE IS FOR THAT.
THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT EATS A LOT OF HORSE, BUT THEY
HAVE A LOT OF HORSES OVER THERE TO EAT.
THEY DON'T NECESSARILY NEED OUR DRUGGED HORSES TO DO
THIS. SO WHO BENEFITS HERE?
IF THERE'S NO MARKETPLACE FOR THIS, IS DAN RIGHT,
SHOULD THEY JUST OPEN AND FIND OUT ORGANICALLY NOBODY
WANTS THIS STUFF, OR SHOULD WE JUST STOP THIS AHEAD OF
TIME, JUST FOR OUR OWN REPUTATION HERE IN NEW
MEXICO? >> WELL, I DON'T KNOW THAT
-- I SORT OF THINK IT WILL BE A IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY
WILL COME SORT OF SITUATION, BECAUSE THERE ISN'T ANOTHER
OPTION RIGHT NOW, AND THERE HASN'T BEEN.
I THINK THE SENATOR IS CORRECT, THERE HASN'T BEEN,
I THINK SINCE 2006, WHEN THEY STOPPED FUNDING IT.
IN 2011, THERE WAS FUNDING, NOW, TO BASICALLY PAY FOR
THE REGULATORS TO ENSURE THAT IT WAS SAFE.
BUT I THINK IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED ISSUE.
I THINK FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THAT AREA, PEOPLE WHO
LIVE IN THAT AREA, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE 40 JOBS.
SO I KNOW THAT FOR PEOPLE IN THAT AREA, WHERE JOBS ARE
TOUGH TO COME BY, THOSE 40 JOBS ARE GOING TO MAKE A
DIFFERENCE TO THAT COMMUNITY.
ON THE OTHER HAND, I DO THINK THERE'S A LOT OF
PEOPLE WHO FEEL -- AND THE PUBLIC OPINION, YOU CAN'T
HELP BUT TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT, I THINK.
>> OKAY. >> IN A LOT OF
ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUES, A LOT OF SITUATIONS WHERE PUBLIC
HEALTH AND SAFETY, WHERE ENVIRONMENTAL AND OTHERWISE
IS AN ISSUE, PUBLIC OPINION MATTERS.
SO PEOPLE SHOWING UP AND ACTUALLY SAYING, THIS IS
TERRIBLE AND SHOULDN'T BE A PART OF OUR COMMUNITY I
THINK WILL BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT, AND SHOULD BE.
AND THERE'S ALSO, I UNDERSTAND, A FEDERAL EFFORT
TO TRY TO BAN THE EXPORT OF MEATS AND OTHER PRODUCTS
THAT COME FROM SLAUGHTERHOUSES LIKE THIS.
SO THAT COULD, IN FACT, MAKE THE ENTIRE THING MOOT AND
THEY WOULDN'T HAVE A MARKET AT ALL TO BE ABLE TO DO IT.
>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING POINT THERE, JOHN.
ON OUR DELEGATION SIDE, EVERYONE BUT PREVIOUSLY
NAMED CONGRESSMAN PEARCE SEEMS TO BE OPPOSED TO THIS,
AS WELL, ALONG WITH OUR GOVERNOR.
AND WHAT'S INTERESTING, AGAIN, ON THIS ISSUE IS,
EVEN SECRETARY VILSACK WAS QUOTED SAYING, WE NEED TO BE
MORE CREATIVE ON THIS IDEA OF HOW WE MANAGE EXCESS
HORSES OUT THERE, NEGLECTED HORSES.
HERE'S THE THING. WE HAVE A DROUGHT IN THIS
STATE. THIS IS ONLY GOING TO GET
WORSE. WE HAVE HAY ASSISTED FEED
PROGRAMS FOR HORSE OWNERS OUT THERE.
IT'S A TERRIBLE PROBLEM. SO ORGANICALLY, WHERE DO YOU
SEE THIS FITTING IN TO SOLVE THE OVERALL BIGGER PROBLEM
OF ALL THESE UNWANTED HORSES?
>> WELL, I THINK THAT THE APPROACH HAS GOT TO BE A
HUMANE ONE, WHICH MEANS THAT WE REALLY NEED TO BE LOOKING
AT EUTHANASIA AND POPULATION CONTROL.
I MEAN, I AGREE WITH DAN ON ONE VERY LIMITED BASIS.
I DISAGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT HE SAYS, BUT --
>> I'M IN TROUBLE. THERE GOES MY CONSERVATIVE
CARD. >> -- THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO
OWN HORSES THAT SHOULDN'T OWN THEM, AND THAT'S PART OF
THE PROBLEM. >> RIGHT.
>> BUT THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, WE HAVE ANIMAL
CRUELTY STATUTES. THE REASON WHY THIS IS SO
DAMAGING TO THE REPUTATION OF NEW MEXICO IS BECAUSE
THERE ARE ARTICLES ABOUT IT APPEARING IN THE NEW YORK
TIMES IN THE LAST WEEK. THOSE FOLLOW ON FROM
ARTICLES THAT WERE APPEARING IN THE NATIONAL PRESS ABOUT
OUR HORSE RACING INDUSTRY AND THE ABUSES IN THAT.
THE REASON IT GIVES SUCH A REPUTATIONAL BLACK EYE TO
NEW MEXICO IS THAT THERE'S A SOCIETAL CONSENSUS IN THIS
COUNTRY THAT WE'RE GOING TO TREAT ANIMALS HUMANELY, AND
THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS IT'S VERY DIFFICULT, IF NOT
IMPOSSIBLE, TO SLAUGHTER HORSES HUMANELY BECAUSE OF
THE PROCESS INVOLVED. THEY'RE MUCH MORE SKITTISH
THAN CATTLE. THEIR BRAINS ARE FARTHER SET
IN THEIR SKULLS AND SO IT'S HARD TO STUN THEM BEFORE
THEY'RE KILLED. SO THEY'RE LITERALLY KILLED
WHILE THEY'RE STILL CONSCIOUS, MANY OF THEM.
>> THAT'S RIGHT. >> SO THE FACT OF THE
MATTER IS, WE HAVE THIS SOCIETAL CONSENSUS, AND WE
NEED TO GO WITH THAT CONSENSUS.
MAYBE WE NEED MORE RESOURCES FOR EUTHANASIA AND
POPULATION CONTROL. BUT LEGALIZING SLAUGHTER AND
THE SELLING OF HORSE MEAT IS NOT THE SOLUTION, AND I
THINK A VAST MAJORITY OF BOTH NEW MEXICANS AND
AMERICANS AGREE THAT THAT IS NOT THE SOLUTION.
>> BACK TO YOU, DAN, ON THAT.
DOES THAT COUNT FOR YOU? I HAVE TO ASK, AND I'LL STAY
ON THIS, THE IDEA OF WHAT IT DOES FOR NEW MEXICO, WHAT IT
DOES TO OUR CITIZENS' ATTITUDE ABOUT NEW MEXICO,
AND OTHERS ABOUT NEW MEXICO. DOES THAT MATTER?
>> NO, IT DOESN'T MATTER, BECAUSE SOMETIMES DOING
WHAT'S RIGHT ISN'T ALWAYS WHAT'S POPULAR.
>> YOU'RE SAYING OPENING THE PLANT?
>> OPENING UP A SLAUGHTER PLANT MAY NOT BE THE MOST
POPULAR, BUT YOU'VE GOT TO SOMETIMES SWIM AGAINST THE
TIDE TO GET THINGS DONE. AND I THINK WE HAVE TO ALSO
BE CAREFUL, GENE, WHEN YOU GIVE THE IMPRESSION THAT,
OH, THIS PLANT IS ONLY GOING TO BE TAKING DRUGGED RACE
HORSE, THAT'S NOT TRUE. JUST UP THE ROAD AT
MESCALERO, THEY HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WILD HORSES UP
THERE DESTROYING THE WATERSHED AND DOING THINGS.
SO I THINK THAT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THERE ARE RULES
AND REGULATIONS. I MEAN, THESE GUYS ARE NOT
FLYING IN A BRAND NEW OUT OF THE BOX, THINKING WE'VE
NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE. AND I HOPE THAT THEY'LL
FOLLOW THE RULES AND REGULATIONS.
40 JOBS DOWN THERE ARE AN IMPORTANT AMOUNT OF JOBS.
40 JOBS, SUSTAINABLE JOBS, MEAN A LOT TO A TOWN OF
50,000 PEOPLE. AND, YOU KNOW, I DO THINK
THAT THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR AN EXPORT OF THIS MEAT
OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.
IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT YOU GET AT A RESTAURANT HERE,
BUT WE DO KNOW THAT OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES, IT IS
EATEN. IT'S ALSO USED IN THE UNITED
STATES TO MAKE DOG FOOD AND OTHER THINGS.
SO THIS COULD BE AN OPPORTUNITY.
I JUST HOPE THAT THE GOVERNMENT WILL STEP IN AND
INSTEAD OF TRYING TO FIGHT THESE GUYS EVERY STEP OF THE
WAY, BE THERE TO HELP THEM DO IT RIGHT, GET IT OPEN
RIGHT, AND DO THE RIGHT THING.
AND I JUST WISH THAT SOME OF THE ADVOCATES THAT ARE
OPPOSED TO THIS WOULD TAKE SOME TIME TO BE CONSISTENT
IN THEIR COMMENTS AND THOUGHTS.
>> INTERESTING. THE ADMINISTRATION, MEANING
THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, HAS SIGNALED THEY ARE NOT
CRAZY ABOUT THIS, AND IN FACT, IN THEIR BUDGET
THEY'VE STRIPPED OUT THE MEANS TO ACTUALLY DO THIS,
WHICH COULD BE A WAY TO JUST SHUT THIS WHOLE THING DOWN.
I'M CURIOUS IF THEY, IN FACT, DO THIS AND CONGRESS
ACTS, IS THERE GOING TO BE A PROBLEM THAT DAN IS TALKING
ABOUT HERE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO RISE UP ABOUT TOO MUCH
GOVERNMENT GETTING INTO PRIVATE ENTERPRISE?
IS THAT A DANGER HERE, OR IS THIS JUST SO FAR BEYOND ALL
OF THIS THAT IT JUST SHOULD BE DONE, AND THAT DAMAGE CAN
TAKE CARE OF ITSELF LATER? WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON THAT?
>> I DON'T KNOW IF PEOPLE WILL RISE UP, BUT OBVIOUSLY
THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY HAS HAD AN ACTIVE LEGAL TEAM, AN
ACTIVE LAWYER THAT HAS BEEN PUTTING PRESSURE ON THE
ADMINISTRATION, AND ON SPECIFICALLY THE USDA TO GET
THIS PLANT -- TO GET EVERYTHING CLEARED.
AND I WOULDN'T BE SURPRISED IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL THAT
KIND OF STRATEGY GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES.
BUT AS FAR AS -- YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HEARD,
THE MORE UPRIGHT ACTIVISTS, I GUESS YOU COULD SAY, ARE
MORE FOLKS WHO ARE BASICALLY NOT WANTING THIS PARTICULAR
PLANT, NOT THE FOLKS WHO WANT IT.
SO I DON'T SEE AN UPRISING, PER SE, AFTERWARDS, BUT
MAYBE A LEGAL STRATEGY OF SOME SORT.
>> IT JUST SEEMS TO ME WHAT THEY'RE DOING IT TAKING
ADVANTAGE OF A LOOPHOLE THAT JUST HAPPENS TO BE OUT THERE
NOW. YOU KNOW, POLITICS IS LIKE
NATURE; IT ABHORS A VACUUM, THEY SEE A VACUUM, THEY RUN
INTO IT. THAT COULD SHUT DOWN VERY
QUICKLY, AS SOON AS THE RECESS IS OVER.
>> YOU MEAN, THE OWNERS? >> THE OWNERS, CORRECT.
AND THERE'S BEEN SOME FALSIFICATION ON THE
APPLICATIONS THAT'S COME TO LIGHT.
THERE WERE SOME FEDERAL ISSUES FOR THE OWNER THAT
DIDN'T -- >> WELL, THEY SEE AN
OPPORTUNITY. I MEAN, A MARKET.
SO IF THERE'S NO MARKET, IF THAT GETS SHUT DOWN AND IT
BECOMES TOO DIFFICULT TO MAKE IT WORK, THEN OBVIOUSLY
THE BUSINESS PLAN DOESN'T WORK.
>> I GUESS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT EVERYBODY,
GENE, I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT EVERYBODY IS SO AFRAID
OF. IF THESE GUYS ARE SUCH BAD
GUYS AND GOING TO DO SUCH A BAD JOB, OPEN THEM UP, AND
CLOSE THEM DOWN WITH THE LAWS THAT ARE IN PLACE.
THERE ARE SO MANY LAWS IN PLACE THAT IF THESE GUYS
DON'T DO ANYTHING RIGHT, YOU CAN CLOSE THEM DOWN.
IN TURN, WHAT'S GOING TO WIND UP HAPPENING IS, THEY
MAY NEVER OPEN, BUT THEY'RE GOING TO GET A TON OF TAX
DOLLARS BECAUSE THEY'RE GOING TO SUE THE GOVERNMENT
AND SAY, YOU PREVENTED US FROM DOING THIS.
I THINK THE PROBLEM IS, I FEEL FROM A LOT OF FOLKS,
GENE, IS THAT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID THEY MAY ACTUALLY DO
IT RIGHT, THEY MAY ACTUALLY BE GOOD AT WHAT THEY DO.
>> BUT HERE'S THE PROBLEM. THERE'S NO WAY TO DO IT
RIGHT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE DAN.
THERE'S NO WAY TO HUMANELY DO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
>> THERE'S ALSO NO WAY TO RAISE CHICKENS RIGHT, AND
PEOPLE STILL EAT CHICKENS. >> SURE THERE IS.
>> OR BEEF. >> SURE THERE IS.
THERE'S A MASSIVE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW CHICKENS ARE
RAISED THE RIGHT WAY OR THE WRONG WAY.
>> OH, GENE. VEAL SELLS OFF THE SHELVES,
AND IF YOU'VE EVER SEEN HOW THEY RAISE VEAL --
>> I DO. >> OKAY, WELL, YOU CAN'T
ADVOCATE FOR THAT. >> NO.
>> THAT'S A HORRIBLE THING, AND YET IT STILL SELLS EVERY
DAY. >> I HEAR YOU, BUT THE
NUMBERS ARE DROPPING. JOHN MAKES THE POINT.
WE'VE GOT TO GET OUT OF THIS, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT THE
NUMBERS ARE DROPPING. I SAY JOHN IS ON TO IT.
THE HUMANE PART OF THIS IS RISING.
IS THE CULTURAL AGREEMENT HAPPENING?
WE'LL SEE WHERE IT PLAYS OUT, BECAUSE THAT'S VOICE IS
GOING TO BE STRONG IN THIS. JUST AFTER THE BREAK, A
DEBATE ABOUT NEW MEXICO'S PRIMARY ELECTIONS AND JUST
WHO SHOULD BE ABLE TO CAST A VOTE IN THEM.