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it should women and men get heat for kade
or for that matter even paid
leave
or should anybody yet
paid leave
k_i_m_o_ it's is whether she is senior fellow at the manhattan institute the
author of menino op
and uh... twitter is atkinson what's
and to ban hadn't dash institute dot org is the website k welcome to the program
act on
thanks for joining us so so lay out your argument for me against
paid leave for women and men
in the event that they have a child or a family emergency or whatever
them against paid leave it depends what your policy coherence yet you are trying
to
increase and gender equality
this is not the way to go
i'd let me explain why i say that
uh... if you look at places like sweet in france armed and other end and then
the other nordic countries as well where they have to be
but i have both genders
for apparently for about
uh... the act
results have banned to hold women back
went if they want to go moved to the very top numbers
this is not dodi if the family leave
maternity leave in particular
uh... but you don't believe in cabey in norway has more female c_e_o_s they're
more female legislators in the united states is a person like legislators all
right
uh... new kid on the public sector
you can do it if i feel quotas in the private sector when you look at sweden
and brochure norway as well i have more data from sweden
uh... mighty fine instead is that women are not doing as well nothing in the
private sector as they are in the united states where there is no uh... hello
required family leave
at your what it does
it comes to try to look at it and try to figure out what's going on here
after all we know that sweetness a place where there's a tremendous dedication
to gender equality
and what they try to have
concluded in this and ideas these are very wet it evolved
uh... economists not not conservatism includes by the way
uh... that well economic forum
on what they concluded is that women i wouldn't go uh... if they're taking a
year off
are left connected to the work force
uh... and last
career-oriented salinas era actually very well known for having women working
part-time allot their gender gap is still a little bit lower than ours but
not by much and have more tibet has more to do
greatest could this not be the function of
it been wealthier society
every which
uh...
what do you carry dot explain what that what you may consider living in sweden
for the average the adversaries families is higher than the standard of living in
the united states it's in everybody has health insurance
everybody has been a cradle-to-grave everybody has access to try to to health
care into uh... child
uh... early education services whatever you call childcare early on that
everybody has a could be a free college essentially very very inexpensive
everybody has hospice care elder care and their in their old age others i
think there's there's just a baseline that's that's quite different there than
it is here so in the united states you've got more more families where
both
the husband and wife have to work and in many situations one which used to work
in the other which is not too and
traditionally over over years that's been the meet them and working in the
woman not
and and you know we can debate the the the biology of morality of that but
that's just how we were all
raised in over the last
millennia
and so if you've got a country that's wealthier if there's not the
pressure the economic pressure
for women to go into the workplace
might not make a certain amount of sense that
not as many do
actually act they have a higher percentage of women working in weight
and then they and we do here
not by a lot but but
it is more uh... sudbury young women are in the workplace they tend to be working
the fewer hours than women here but again i i don't know the question that i
was raising and i have better and i think uh... intended to
well you know i was that
you have to figure out what your lecture particulate
if more equality more gender equality
then maternity leave at you know it is and particularly very generous maternity
leave
is not necessarily going to help you
so what what
uh... well you know i hope
my own feeling is that uh... dairy is never going to be absolutely gender
equality for the simple reason that women
are uh... less inclined to want to sacrifice
time with your hundred-plus relationships with their children
rise and that is not a quality that we should be
working too
to create in men
and gothic and could we do that by saying we're gonna offer maternity leave
two men as well as well
how we can do that and of course we have done that and every year is out there
are very very interesting
since the nineteen seventies they have tried to equalize male or female
commitment the children
i happen to have been a little bit of success event what they did it first
birthday inside they instituted
proudly that could be taken by met women or men well they kept finding that women
were taking all believe that not mad at all
and then a third wine the nineties the answer to that and use it or lose it
approach
i_v_f_ men did not use the collected the delete they would break the family would
lose that so
uh... happen
do you think will increase the number of manner a percentage of it
who were are packed taking late
if that is that i've seen indicate no real change
when it comes to separate since taking time off
with a sick child and in terms of the gender gap the weights gap that hasn't
changed much either
they reached him
uh... statistics and it's it's here here
realize your here here
putting these in a relatively conservative frame it as it were
lettuce not try to equal in states tomorrow
i think that this isn't something that people should be given choices now
i don't think it's it's extra i don't think it's up to the state to state
we are going to make you exactly equal we've got men and women to do exactly
the same thing idon't think women want that necessarily
i certainly phenolpthalein that cdw proper to really hasn't done its
opportunity to take time off to be with your kids
that's not that's not enforce equality
yeah okay exim you know if you want to outer equalize
weaker rental leave
you know that that's one thing but
again i think you're what you're saying is
we're going to were going to insist on aren't doing things this way
whenever really asking people what they want no i don't understand what i'm
saying is that your
here at your question is a is a is a bit of a straw man but
but you're saying that the reason that we should not have parental leave both
for men and for women
is because it's not producing you know more female executives in sweden
and i would say
if it's the moral thing to do the right thing to do
you know that that as a society we should be doing it whether it produces
so you know some
magical outcome that
the uh... yeah if your policy goal
yes let's let's say our policy goal is not
to raise the wealth of for female executives and big corporations are
policy goal is to do was right for society for people
of men wanted to leave a can of unwanted believe they can what's wrong with that
actually don't have a problem with that
i think we do you do have to recognize the
i read that there are certain kinds of trade-offs we have to deal with we have
to question
what the effect on small businesses will be
i have a friend i remember talking to she has a got hit in the finance uh...
world that she has her own company
that seven workers all of them women she is completely devoted to by trying to
advance women but life is just a darker ever after what you thought about having
a out more
required believe she said
it would make her white impact
well now this kind of policies here in the united states in in in impending
many european countries as well
don't kick in until you get fifty people who were last and and so arguments with
that is cutting its comes from into
he had a little too for the proper looking conversation appreciate senior
fellow at the menendez two men and actions to better thank you for being
with us k