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How do you see the connection between the drugs and spirituality?
First of all you have to understand what is spirituality.
Because if your definition of spirituality is something different from my definition of spirituality then obviously my answer is not going to fit your understanding.
So either you tell me what you mean by spirituality and then I can answer what is the relationship of drugs with spirituality.
Or what people in general mean by this word: "spirituality".
Well, when they usually take drugs,
they say something about getting high, right?
Where high means an elevation of...
sometimes sensual pleasure...
and sometimes...
this abstract feeling of getting somewhere...
sometimes it's an illusion of hallucinations...
that makes them feel they are out of the box...
therefore they kind of transcendent their own personality, so...
Yes, so if this is what you mean by spirituality then I would say yes - drugs have a lot of things to do with spirituality.
- But that is not what I mean by spirituality. - OK.
As you know the word spirituality is derived from the word "spirit",
which is a word for "atma"
or the conscious in the usual living being in the body.
So, there are two objects
or two principles in life basically and one is the body which is innert matter
another is the "atma" which is the living principle
So when we say spirituality, at least when I say, what I mean is that which bring you closer to your own self.
Which makes you realize that you are not the body.
You are a spiritual being. You are a spirit soul.
You are an atma or a purusha.
So drugs don't have that ability to bring you to that realization.
But they give you the ability to be out of the control so you feeling that the body is not... [enclosing you]
Drugs can make you feel that there is something higher.
Or make you even feel that you are something different from the body. (Body is not the only thing)
But they cannot give you an experience of the self.
And that is one thing. Second things is that effect of a drug is not permanent.
The spiritual experience once you have it you have it.
You don't come down from that.
And once the effect of drugs is permanent it's very bad.
It's very bad. That means you go actually... mad.
So drugs don't have this ability, because drug is a material object.
So the effect depends on the cause, right?
So if the cause is material, the result will also be material.
Alright.
So if you are trying to achieve spirituality, which is obviously not material.
Spiritual experience, spirituality... obviously - as the word says - means something different than material.
We have two words: material and spiritual. So materialism and spirituality are two different things.
One is related with the innert matter and one is related with the conscious.
Usual being or with God,
who is a spiritual person also.
So anything material cannot lead you to spiritual. Only the spiritual things can lead you to spiritual.
Cause if it's not there in the cause it cannot manifest in the effect.
So this is a misunderstanding
and probably it's easier way to have some experience and then relate, then call it spirituality,
because after all you don't have to do much just take a drug.
But spirituality is not that simple.
Spirituality means that it brings enlightenment which gives you vision of the reality.
So drug doesn't have that ability to give you a vision of the reality. It's not possible.
It can give you a vision of so many things, but not of the reality.
So there are...
there actually there is a mention of some herbs
even in Patanjali's Yoga Sutra
That they can help you to meditate.
But even that doesn't mean that it's going to make you... self-realized, or anything like that.
If that was the thing then there is no need for the various types of spiritual practices which are prescribed
by different schools of thought in India or outside India.
Then the easiest thing would be to take a drug and become self-realized.
And then you can sell spirituality.
But spirituality is something that you cannot sell it,
you cannot give it to somebody, it is something that you have to acquire yourself.
It's like when you eat food - you are hungry, so you have to eat it yourself.
Or if you have to sleep then you have to sleep it yourself.
Even if you are the richest person of the world
you cannot hire people to sleep for yourself or to eat for yourself.
So the same thing is with the self-realization, as the word itself says... you have to realize it yourself. You have to do something yourself.
But you do have a feeling, like
what they say about taking drugs, and say like:
"Oh my God, I realized so many things!"
I have never taken drugs, so I have no idea... what they realize...
When you read on experiences on drugs which is mostly described as the spiritual experiences... because,
actually I started this talk on the topic of drugs
- As I believe there is the need, a personal need of a human being to find some spiritual outlet. - Yes.
And the decisions they make when they have this need can be either healthy or unhealthy.
- Which can go towards drugs or towards healthy spirituality. - Right.
So, there are people in India,
even among the religious people that they take some of this...
You probably call this bhang or ***, *** they smoke.
But nobody has become realized by doing that.
That I can guarantee.
It makes you brain dull, you become more quiet and peaceful and then you look like you are a spiritual person.
But a stone piece is also very quiet and peaceful.
That does not bring enlightenment.
It may activate your brain or give you some sort of knowledge or experience,
but that's not spiritual.
Only... I think the only influence drugs can have is that
if you are a complete atheist and you have no idea about spirituality
then maybe it makes you think that maybe there are some other things
than that I am experiencing with my senses.
And they may develop some sort of faith in spiritual life.
- Or start to think metaphysically. - Yes, start to think metaphysically which has happened to many people.
I met many people who said that actually because of drugs they came to this path.
But then they gave up drugs
- And they are still on the path. - Yeah, they're on the path.
So it sort of lead them to the process, but...
I don't believe... Even logically I am not convinced
and I have not read it anywhere in scriptures which would say that by drugs you can become realized...
Right.
... and elevate your consciousness, because the whole idea of spirituality is to elevate your consciousness.
So they will say that they go high, means basically that their consciousness becomes altered first.
So period, but then they are down again and then probably they are worse than before.
So that's not spirituality.
Spirituality elevates you and afterwards you feel even better.
Yes, it elevates you permanently.
It's a permanent thing.
Permanent high.
Yes, so you are eternally high. And you don't need drugs for that.
And it's very cheap.
You don't pay anything for it. Except that you have to work yourself, only work on yourself.
So spirituality is not something which you can buy in the supermarket.
That's a good news actually.
Yes, although some people are making business of spirituality, also that's not spirituality.
Alright.
Clear?
Clear.