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Feng: He says at most there are three or four wires.
Feng: Which means to say, the device is not working, they went to inspect, and that's when they realise the wires are broken. So why does it happen and how do we prevent this from happening?
Jack: It will be good if we can have photos of the broken wire still in the device. Because how it is broken can tell us a bit more about what happened. For eg, sometimes, the wires are broken on one side and not the other. Why? May be due to air velocity.
Jack: OK, so we'll have a look at the photos. Now, we can also use thicker wires, if we really cannot figure out why. Thicker wires will be slightly less effective - from 95% to 92% probably.
Joey: But why the difference? Jack: Difference in the thickness with result in difference in how the electrical charge is emitted.
Jack: There is definitely a difference. Otherwise we would just use thick wires to prevent the wires from breaking.
Yeh: OK, now, this is our electronic cell. This is the 6.8mm distance.
Now the distance is measured using this locknut, so it is consistent throughout.
Yeh: OK, here's another difference between our ESP and competitor. You'll see here there are 6 points to support the cell. Most companies use 5, but there is a difference between 5 & 6 pts. If the air speed is high, it can easily cause cracks in the plates
Yeh: It will shake, so this is a lot more stable. Jack: Also, it is easier to clean because of the stability.
Also, these points are made with hollow tubes, so even though it is more stable, it does not add to the weight of the device.
Francois: How did you decide on the length of the plate because it is longer than the AK?
Jack: Well, it really comes down to experience, to be honest. Yes, mathematically, we can test the effectiveness of using different lengths. But because every client is different - just take Western and Asian cuisine - there is really no clear standard.
Which is why I said earlier the 6.8mm distance- to be honest, that's not based on any mathematical calculation, that's based on our experience working with clients and working it out along the way.
OK, I think it's important to emphasize that it is very difficult to use one device at a standard design as a solution for all clients... what works for one client may not work for the other. This is the biggest challenge for us.
So the solution must be to find a balance. And also to place the emphasis on safety.
Now we have tried before, to manufacture a device specifically for one type of business - but then the volume is also different at different times. It's a big challenge.
So to recommend one type of setting for one type of kitchen is very difficult in that sense. That's also why we don't say our devices are 99%, but rather 95%.
Feng: Francois basically said, there are no tests to determine reduction of oil and grease levels...
Yes, that's the difficulty. In Taiwan, there is no breakdown of the type of pollutants that is required. The tests just want to know what the overall levels are before and after treatment and that it has to have at least a 90% reduction.
Feng: Yes, but Francois would like to know, because he's working with a university in Australia to test. Yen: Yes, he wants to know - your 95% refers to exactly what kind of particles?
For the industry, most tests are still referring to dust particles, and there are no tests for oil and grease reduction...
Oh, no, that's not correct. Even for oil and grease, we look at the particle size to determine the performance of the ESP - from 0.1 to 10 microns.
OK, I understand. Let me put it this way. Available tests out there will look at the performance of the ESP based on particle size. The tests do not differentiate what KIND of particles they are - whether they are dust or oil, grease etc.
To clarify, maybe it would be good to discuss what we mean by oil/grease/smoke - they consists of 3 components: physical (particle) bits, chemical gases, and the 3rd, odours.
Now, these belong to two basic categories: Solids, and Gases. Now, the ESP can really only treat the Solids, not so much the Gases.
Ok, maybe when we have a bit of time later, we can continue to discuss this.
OK, let's continue. This is our pre-filter. It's very important. It helps to filter our larger particle sizes or unwanted waste coming through.
Feng: There are tests for particles, yes? Jack: Yes, of course.
Jack: OK, now this is our internal test results.. Feng: What about national tests? Jack: Yes, we have those too.
One way we do it is, if our client is MacDonald, we will hire a national tester to test as a benchmark for all MacDonald outlets - assuming same type of fumes.
Feng: So, do you have such a certification of the test results? Jack: Yes, yes.
Feng: Is this for odour or particle size? Jack: Particles.
Francois said he has tested with MacDonalds before, but it was for odours, not particles.
Jack: For oil/grease/smoke, you have to remove the particles in order to treat the air. Use the EP, then have other components to treat the odours.
In Taiwan, our Government has legislated the use of EPs mainly because particles can affect a person's lungs and health. Odours, although unpleasant, are not a risk to health, so there are no standards for this.
Unfortunately, clients always complain about the odours first. In Taiwan, we face this a lot too. Clients say the EP doesn't work because the smell is still there. But they don't understand it's the particles that are important.
OK, back to the pre-filter. Because it is good at getting larger particles, if the client uses charcoal grills, this will have to be cleaned more often.
Feng: Usually, is there a recommended standard for the thickness of this pre-filter?
Jack: There's no standard... we started from having quite a thick one, because we thought it would clear out more particles. But then it resulted in slowing down the air - which is not a bad thing. It just depends.
Yes, it will obstruct the air flow. So it is hard to say whether a thicker filter is better or worse - each situation is different. One client may say, because it's so thick, that after a month, it's clogged and the air can't move.
But if you use a light one, then the electronic cell has to work harder, so it's hard to say. Feng: This time, it's pretty thick, yes? Jack/Yeh: This? Yes, it's slightly thicker.
So you may experience with this filter, clients may call and ask you, how come the air is not moving as well? Yes, so you may want to increase the fan speed.
OK, so in our experience, it is best not to make it too thick, especially in commercial uses. It can lead to blockages quickly. In McDonald's for example, we found many napkins stuck to the filer.
Sometimes, when the employees are cleaning the hood but did not turn off the fan. Woosh, the napkins fly up to the filter. So e usually pick up a lot of napkins, cloths in this area.
OK, so now let's talk about the heat exchanger. This area is the most important component in the heat exchanger. it is a system used to distribute and dissipate heat.
The way it works is that the temperature differences will cause the air movement to expel the higher temperature air out of the ESP via the heat exchanger.
The aim of this is to dissipate the heat - because the ESP as its working will generate heat. So it's important to have a mechanism that can dissipate the heat outside of the ESP.
OK, there are other benefits. I think if you look at other brands, there is a fan, which expels the heated air and presumably sucks in cooler air.
But due to the placement of the ESP, there is a lot of smoke and grease and oil that is drawn in. In the past, without this heat exchanger, we found that upon inspection, the voltage area is full of grease and oil.
But with the heat exchanger, because the entire section is sealed, it can help to prevent oil and grease from affecting the voltage area.
Jack: It's completely sealed, there's no contact between the inside area and the outside area because of this heat exchanger.
Number 2 - it's a refrigerant that helps to cool the system.
Yes, well, it's physics right, the cold air will compress, and the heated air will rise, this is how the exchanger works. That's the gist of it.
This is something we've adopted, the heat exchanger.
Let me just add another point. There is no compressor in this exchanger. If there were, this would work like an air conditioner - able to regulate the temperature at a specific value.
No, there is no compressor here, because we are not worried that the temperature will rise to such a level that would break the device. So a heat exchanger in place is sufficient.
Francois is saying that with the AK, even though it did not have a heat exchanger, there were no problems.
It's possible that in Australia, there are fewer clients who cook like Asians where there is always a lot of smoke? Feng: Well, they have a lot of grilling... Jack: Inside or outside?
Feng: You know, Francois has sold many AK before, and there was never any problems, that's what he's saying. Jack: Yes, okay.
Let's put it this way. If you take the same ESP, one with the heat exchanger and one without - after a year, you can compare. It will be very clear that the one with the heat exchanger is better maintained.
Yes, if not more oil and grease, then more dust. It is better with this, definitely.
OK, this is the voltage area. High voltage from 6 to 16K, low voltage from 3 to 8K, adjustable. Feng: But we don't usually adjust these values... Yeh: The different power supply works - and if it's a different country, we can also change that.
Ok there are three protections in place for the power pack. The first is supply of electricity. If the amp is more than 0.5, it will cut the circuit automatically (although the meter outside will read 1.0 - double the value)
The lighting outside will change.. if the amp value is too high.
Maybe it's easier if we explain showing the power pack...
Feng: Yes we have this problem with some of our power packs. Would be good if you can help us solve this.
When the current passes through, this light bulb here at the bottom will turn from red to green. That's normal operation. The amp meter will also rise.
Feng: The amp meter cannot go past 0.5? Yeh: Let me explain. The display is a mechanical one. So because the digital reading is 0.5, there is a one-fold differential from the digital and mechanical reading. So outside, the mechanical reading will say 1.0.
Yeh: Because it's a dual-direction current, so on the mechanical reading it will be twice the actual amp reading... (too technical)