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Good evening. Welcome to tonight's On The Edge with me Theo Chalmers. Once again tonight's
show is two hours long and live so if you have any questions for our guest during the
show text them to 87778 with the word EDGE a space and then your name, location and your
message and we'll try and pick up on any that really hit the mark. They're all charged at
standard rate so why not get texting. In tonight's show I'll be talking with a guest who is extremely
knowledgeable about Britain's two King Arthurs. Yes really. Where the Ark of the Covenant
lies hidden in Wales, who's language the Welsh are really speaking and how it and our true
history has been repressed for generations for possibly very sinister reasons. To reveal
all I'm joined by a man who has spent many years studying ancient records, scrolls and
tombs, writing books and badly upsetting the establishment. He is Alan Wilson. What a show
we've got tonight. Alan welcome! Alan Wilson: Thank you. Theo Chalmers: So you've been studying
this subject or these subjects because there's more than one really but there all sort of
interlinked for, I think you said before since 1953? Alan Wilson: I started looking at this
casually just for something on the weekends in 1956. I was joined by my colleague who
urged me to put it on a firm footing in 1976 because he wanted to launch the search for
Arthur II. He said we can do this let's do it. Theo Chalmers: But over 30 years seriously?
Alan Wilson: Oh yes, yes. Theo Chalmers: So you've been looking for...I always thought
there was one King Arthur and that he lived in Camelot with his round table and so on.
But you're telling me that's not the case? Alan Wilson: It's fairly well known that there
were two and I think it was well known certainly in Welsh records. A Reverend Williams wrote
a book in 1734 saying there were two and you've only got to look at the history; he's supposed
to fight the Romans and then he fights the Anglo-Saxons. That would make him 250 years
old so it's fairly obvious that he's two people. The first real clue on this comes from the
most famous of British manuscripts the Harleian 3859 and there are king lists and list number
four starts off with Macsen Wledig who is Magnus Maximus. Now it's well known that Magnus
Maximus is the only son of Crispus who is the eldest son of Constantine the Great emperor.
He married twice his first wife is Ceindrech the daughter of Rheiden and their eldest son
was Arthur. This is Arthur I. Andragathius the Romans called this Arthur, invades Gaul
in 383 which is not 6th century he is 4th century and they successfully conquered the
whole of Western Europe and they did, in Geoffrey of Monmouth which we try not to use, we try
to use other records, states they fought a great battle with the Roman emperor at 'Sassy'
Soissons and that battle did take place, the battle was fought, Emperor Gratian loses,
they chase him down to Lugdunum, Lyons and they killed him. So Arthur did fight against
the Romans. Theo Chalmers: He was fought the Romans and killed by the Romans? Alan Wilson:
Well the whole of Western Europe and most of North Africa went over to Magnus and he
became Emperor. He was actually the right Emperor because he was the only son of the
eldest son of Constantine the Great so he was the right guy. He was finally defeated
in the Balkans, two big battles in what is, well, what was Yugoslavia. A battle of the
Sisica on the Sica river and a battle at Poetovio and Arthur had to withdraw back and a surprise
move by Theodosius the Emperor of Constantinople captured Magnus at Ravenna. But nevertheless
there was an Arthur I who then returned to the UK and there are some solid records, there
is a solid record of him in the UK. An Irish Prince named Reueth invaded North Wales. In
the medieval records he's King Ryons and in the Welsh records he's Rhitta Gawr but it's
the same guy. He invades Snowdonia and Gwynedd. Arthur's march to the battle is recorded in
an ancient Welsh poem and there's a grave mound for old Reueth upon Snowdonia where
he was put after the battle in which he lost. That's known to be 367 AD so we've got an
Arthur I. So that's the beginning we knew there were two quite early on. Theo Chalmers:
So what was Arthur I's territory that he ruled? Alan Wilson: Well they seemed to have had
a teyrn, a teyrn is a monarch and under the teyrn were a number of regional kings. Certainly
they don't appear to have used currency too much but one captured Roman legionary was
worth twenty cows as a slave. But nonetheless his territory would have been the Midlands
of England, Warwickshire and Shropshire, maybe as far as Leicester and North Wales, Powys
but there wasn't Wales and England back then it was just Britain. Theo Chalmers: But then
not South Wales because I believe there's some connection with Glamorgan. Alan Wilson:
He had a brother who is buried in Llanhilleth and that's in the Songs of the Graves very
clearly outlined, you go along and there's a great big gravemound right on target. He
would have been titular over most places they've have all said he's the boss so that's the
way it would have worked but there were kings in Wales obviously. Wales is a kingdom it's
not a principlity it's a kingdom. You've got to get that in your head. Theo Chalmers: Arthur
I, where is he buried? Alan Wilson: The account of the grave of Arthur says that he's in the
great ancient graveyard of the British where multitudes of the illustrious of the British
are buried. Theo Chalmers: Is this Atherstone in Warwickshire? Alan Wilson: There's a place
called Oldbury, you see, old burying place. Arthurstone. There are multitudes of huge
gravemounds in the woods there. They've turned it into a nature reserve for bird watching
now. There are names around it, they seem to be strange Anglo-Saxon but one reads "Granted
free without taxation" in perfect Welsh and another one reads "Free grazing for sheep"
and there's another one 'Plowland of the court'. Theo Chalmers: So by following the ancient
records you've found that there were two King Arthurs, you've found the grave of Arthur
I. Alan Wilson: We think so yes. Theo Chalmers: OK and he was? Alan Wilson: He died around
400 AD we think. Theo Chalmers: And then there was a later Athur? Alan Wilson: Yes Arthur
II. Arthur I had a son Tathall (Theodore) whose son was Teithrin (Theodorus) and he
had a son King Teithfallt (Theodosius) who became king. He defeated the Saxons after
a terrible massacre. His son was King Tewdrig (Theoderic) who's buried at Mathern which
has been twice excavated, there's a wound in the skull. His son was King Meurig (Maurice)
and we know where he is, and his eldest son was Arthur II so six generations down the
male line you've got Arthur II. Theo Chalmers: What was the kingdom of Arthur II? Was that
the same? Alan Wilson: He was pronounced King of Glamorgan. He's over in Brittany. His knights
are there with him. It's in the Brut of England which are the official histories, medieval
histories of England and they say he's crowned King of Glamorgan. Theo Chalmers: So why is
it then that we have all this sort of weird King Arthur industry and there's people saying
oh he's in Glastonbury and somewhere in Cornwall and they've mixed them altogether. If it's
so in the records why's no one else found them? Alan Wilson: Well religious and political
manoeuvring for various reasons. If you look at the name Glastonbury, Glastons in Breton
and Cornish means 'place of oak trees'. Glastenau in Welsh means 'the scarlet oak' and there
is a mention in 800 AD in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle of a Glastinbri and it's very clear
that it's in the Midlands. It's 200 miles from the oak trees they are referring to.
But in Caradoc of Llancarfan writing about 1120 and I think it's Matthew of Westminster,
there are ten notations of where Arthur is buried. They are referring really to Arthur
I. The great scraped out ditch -- Offa's ***, the great ancient highway, Watling Street
running from London to the capital at Viroconium and other references all point to it being
the Midlands. Saint Asaph (of town of St Asaph) used to pop across to Glastonbury; well it's
just across the border from Atherstone it's a direct line, he wouldn't have gone all the
way to Somerset. Theo Chalmers: So this is Arthur II we are talking about now and he
was also a King? Alan Wilson: Arthur II was buried in Glamorgan. We found in the Life
of St. Illtyd and Nennius Histories there's strange story of a burial. A ship arrives
at a river which is named the Ewenny River, well it's easy to find the Ewenny River and
it's a place of smooth ridges; well the smooth ridges are the great sand dunes that are there.
Runners, long distance runners use them to train themselves up and down the sand. There
are other places names associated. Now what happens is St. Illtyd is sitting at a cave
and a ship arrives and there are eminent people in this boat and they've got the body of a
dead man who was really some big guy. They bring the body to Illtyd and swear him to
secrecy and he buries the corpse in the cave. Now the cave exists it's still there and in
the cave, you go in about 20 yards there's a great ancient pit that has been dug out
and it's very, very hard rock, if you'd try to drill it you'd have trouble. It's 10 feet
long and about 4 feet wide and about 4 feet deep. Theo Chalmers: I think we've got a picture
of the cave. Alan Wilson: I've given you so many pictures I've overloaded you. Theo Chalmers:
We'll try and find the picture of the cave and put it up. Alan Wilson: Nonetheless, two
young men from a film college were filming in this cave and they panned across the side
of the wall of the cave...and something like happened with us in America as well...yes
that's the cave entry. It was sealed up and a man from Cardiff went there in 1886 and
he got a local guy who worked in the quarry they carefully put little bit of dynamite
in and dynamited the sealed wall. Actually there was a bit of stalactite and stalagmite
and that had flowed down and really sealed it so they blew it apart. He made a good record
of what he was doing. Theo Chalmers: And there was writing on the wall? Alan Wilson: Well
that was found by Colin Games and Blair Urquhart who did the filming in the cave and it's not
until you get back and you look and it and you say ooh there's writing there and it's
covered with stalactite. So it's very old. Theo Chalmers: So what did it say? Alan Wilson:
It's in the ancient British/Welsh Coelbren alphabet and it's says this is the place of
the place of the highest ruler. It doesn't say Arthur but it's damn close. Theo Chalmers:
So you're saying later on they took the body after they'd prepared a site for him? Alan
Wilson: One of the two accounts, ones in St. Illtyd and ones in the Marvels of Britain
by Nennius says how the body is later taken out to a church near or in this church. We
reasoned where this church would be because it's a straight line up the river from the
woods and there's the ruin of St. Peter's Church. One account in a 6th century poem
says "Your stone there was became a mystery" so we said there's stone we've got to look
for. So we started rooting about. This church has been abandoned at the turn of the century
about 1900. So we got hold of the Church of Wales and we said do you want to sell it?
They said yes so we bought it. We now owned it so we could route about quite free from
any hindrance and we did find a stone. Theo Chalmers: What did the stone say? Alan Wilson:
Either it's nonsense or it's lousy Latin it says 'Rex Artorivs Filii Mavricvs' which is
Artorius Rex in good Latin. But we don't know who caved it. Perhaps it was some soldier
or idiot who didn't know what he was doing. Because there was a great catastrophe in Britain
which we'll come to later if you don't mind. Mavricvs would have been Meurig who was his
father. So we knew this could be the church. Our business is writing books, that's expensive
enough. Theo Chalmers: Let me show the camera some of the books you've written. This is
'Moses in the Hieroglyphs', this is 'The Discovery of the Ark of the Covenant' we'll come to
that in a bit. This is 'Artorius Rex Discovered' is this the stone that you found on the cover
here? Alan Wilson: Yes it is. Theo Chalmers: Another one, 'The King Arthur Conspiracy'
and you can see weighty tombs all of them. I don't know why but we've also got one in
Polish. Alan Wilson: Well we published another book with Adrian Gilbert and it was published
in Italy and Poland and god knows where. It's 'The Holy Kingdom' I never liked the title
but that was Gilbert's. Theo Chalmers: We were talking about Arthur II and the church
that you bought. Alan Wilson: We knew we had real trouble with the establishment, we were
getting trouble with capital letters believe me. Theo Chalmers: Tell me why you think you
were getting into trouble? Alan Wilson: Well we were finding a number of sites not just
this one, they're all of the top of the Rhondda Drift and elsewhere so you've got seven thousand
million tonnes of coal underneath and that's not wanted. The other reason we had a Prime
Minister Callaghan and speaker named George Thomas and they were in with a man who I never
heard a good word about anywhere named Julian Hodge who owned the Bank of Wales. When they
were in government they were in government but when the Labour party weren't in government
Callaghan and Hodge were directors of the bank. They got into all sorts of land business...I
might as well say it, they got into land and they bought rubbish/cheap land in Llantrisant
and when it became necessary to move the confined giant Royal Mint out of London and put it
somewhere, lo and behold the only place to put it was the land owned by the Prime Minister
and the speaker of the House of Commons. Theo Chalmers: OK allegedly? Alan Wilson: No! Late
at night about 20 or 30 Labour MP's kept things going, going, going on a trivial debate and
about two in the morning Callaghan and Thomas got up and apologised to the House of Commons
and the apology was accepted so it would never be discussed. You've played Monopoly at all?
Well they've got a get out of jail card. The other reason is that we are upsetting the
academics wholesale. You see just before the 1939 war the senior archaeologist at Cardiff
University was a very famous man and he didn't care too much about Wales, he wanted to go
and dig up Mohenjo-daro in Pakistan. Sir Mortimer Wheeler. He was all over the TV when I was
young, that was a long time ago. Anyway, he's digging up in 1939, war is impending and crosses
the plain, it's in his book, he's sees a lone figure riding towards him, he turns out to
be a gentlemen who was a second lieutenant in the Indian army. This guy spends his three
week leave with Mortimer Wheeler and enjoys his leave and goes away. After the war with
five million people pouring out of the army and a couple million out of the navy there
was mayhem, he arrived at Cardiff University and said I was on the dig at Mohenjo-daro
with Wheeler they thought wow and they gave him a job. Of course the problem was he didn't
have any qualifications apart from a three week holiday on the dig and he stayed there
for 19 years. He took Cardiff University over to Somerset digging up Cadbury Hill claiming
it to be Camelot, you see. But Camelot in the records of Mallory, Camelot is said to
be in South Wales, it says it very clearly and the main resident of the Glamorgan kings
was just four miles north of Cardiff centre. There was a wedding held at the castle in
1453 so it was still in use. Theo Chalmers: So Camelot was in Cardiff? Alan Wilson: It's
got two names, it's called Cu Bwrd, Cu is 'Mutually Together' and Bwrd is 'Table'. How
about that? Theo Chalmers: Round Table. Alan Wilson: Just below it is still Yellow Wells
farm which was the 'Yellow Fort' at Caer Melyn -- Camelot. Caer Melyn means "Yellow Fort".
So the academics at Cardiff University have made real idiots of themselves by digging
up Somerset for seven years when it's on their doorstep. Theo Chalmers: So this is Arthur
II who had Camelot not Arthur I? Alan Wilson: Yes Arthur II. Even in Norman times it was
the Royal Cantref you couldn't tax it. A Cantref is like a small county they split country
up into counties. The field is still there you can see the ruins and the mounds the lady
land owner lets us go on it and look at it, she's very friendly. We don't dig anything
as were not qualified. Theo Chalmers: Let's talk about the establishment a bit more. Alan
Wilson: That's part of the upset and I'm not going to go into the rest because it tedious.
Theo Chalmers: I'll just poke you in one direction a little bit. If these ancient kings of Britain
that you've turned up with their genealogies and everything else, presumably have descendants
don't they? So where does that put the Saxe-Coburg and Gotha? Oh sorry the Windsor's? Alan Wilson:
I think it sort of puts them in a fourth division. What has happened is that if you get a history
before 714 AD you'll find that the history of Britain starts with the invasion of Britain
by Albyne about 1500 BC. The Welsh have the same history. In the Bruts of England, the
medieval official histories they also have the story of Albyne and the second invasion
comes about 500 BC with Brutus of Troy. Brutus is alleged to be the first consul of Rome.
Theo Chalmers: This isn't the "Et tu, Brute?" Brutus is it? Alan Wilson: Oh no that's Caesar.
We're talking about 500BC and Caesar's 50 BC. Anyway, you'll find these histories were
British history but about 1714 they decided they were rubbish and to be abandoned and
one of the main reasons given was that the Trojan War never happened because Troy never
existed except in the mind of the poet Homer. Since Troy "never existed" British history
was rubbish. There was a guy writing this from Oxford in 1891 I've got his book. Heinrich
Schliemann dug up Troy in 1876 and proved it was there and this other guy was saying
it's a fiction when it was found already. So once Troy was found you say hang on they've
thrown the baby out with the bath water. They've got rid of our history. Theo Chalmers: So
our history can't be true because "Troy never existed"? Alan Wilson: That's right. So we
decided no we would switch, you see it's no good if you put a roof up and build the walls
unless you put the foundation down, so we decided we would have a crack at the history
of Albyne and the history of Brutus. Albyne's history is very basic and it tells a very
plain story. He's Diocletian and he's got an enemy named Lebanor and he rules 33 provinces
and some of his daughter ruled some of these provinces and one of his daughters marries
his enemy Lebanor and they make peace. Lebanor's made a big raid on his territory and there's
all this detail. Now Leonard Woolley who was probably one of the greatest archaeologists
who ever lived went out and dug up the tombs at Ur. The 3rd dynasty of Ur. Theo Chalmers:
Ur which is Iraq. Alan Wilson: Yes. They were the big dynasty of antiquity and the 3rd dynasty
was greatest. Theo Chalmers: We're going for a break now. If you'd like to text in your
question and comments for Alan Wilson why not do so now to 87778 with the word EDGE
with your text and we'll see you very soon. Welcome back to On The Edge with me Theo Chalmers
and my special guest Alan Wilson who has already upset the Royal Family, the Cardiff University,
Callaghan the ex-Prime Ministers family, Julian Hodge the famous Welsh banker and possibly
other people. So Alan, the city of Ur, we were in Iraq. Alan Wilson: What the great
Leonard Woolley found was that there was a great necropolis and the greatest tomb of
the necropolis was two stories above ground and two stories below ground, like a palace.
The upstairs was where the people administered the estate and the downstairs was the votive
rooms and the burial room. Dungi was the greatest of the Ur emperors, British annals call him
Diocletian. He had a great enemy named Lebanor the great King of the Hittites, he did attack
Dungi's kingdom and Dungi did rule 33 different provinces as stated in the Bruts of England.
Theo Chalmers: So the ancient English history, there's interesting stories about what's going
on in Iraq. Alan Wilson: Yes that's right. Now how could they know this? Now it gets
better because in 1939 they found three ships in the Humber River and they said "Viking
ships, put them in a museum and call them Viking ships". Now 10 years ago they said
let's carbon date some of the timber and they came up with 1500 BC which is nice for the
migration of Albyne. Now there is more; in the votive area of Dungi's tomb they found
a table and on this table were little metal and glass objects, balls, spheres, like comets
I suppose and bulls and sheep, reclining and standing. When they dug up the Lexton Mound
at Colchester of King Kinvelin, I think about 1938, they found a votive table of metal with
little statues of reclining bulls and reclining sheep and little balls. Now that is too bigger
coincidence for me. What it means to me is that there's a bit more to the Dungi-Diocletian
setup and the Bruts of England. They've got something. Now the other thing is, if you
read Homer's Odyssey, Ulysses is assisted by his bailiff to recover his kingdom and
he says to the bailiff where do you come from He said "I come from a great big island out
in the Western ocean." He said what's it called? He said "Syrie" Syria. Where do you get the
word Surrey from? You see, and yet it's there 'Surrey'. The other little point to make is
that in the Welsh records they say that the language that prevailed in England was the
language of the Iceniglas the Iceni people. It's not German it's not Angle or Saxon. A
French guy wrote a book he'd done some studying and he concluded that the English language
was based on ancient Chaldean and he couldn't work out why. So there may be a little bit
more to this then meets the eye. The Brutus legend, the same sort of thing, we've got
a heck of a tie up and we'll come to that if you want. Theo Chalmers: Let's talk about
the Ten Tribes of Israel. Alan Wilson: Fundamental to British history is a language and an alphabet.
Now we've got an ancient British alphabet and we've the ancient Khumric language. Theo
Chlamers: And that's not the alphabet we use which is an Arabic alphabet. Alan Wilson:
No it's not. Julius Caesar describes the alphabet and he says it's similar to the Greek. Ammianus
Marcellinus describes the alphabet and he said the Greeks got it from the Brits. So
we've got old references. Strabo the Greek geographer is fulsome about the scholarship
of the Brits as you know. He said they speak Greek in their colleges as good as the Greeks
in the Lyceum University in Athens. This alphabet is preserved in Wales, now the reason for...it's
British, Welsh history is British history it belongs to all of us. The one part of Britain
that wasn't really overrun at some time in the centuries and sometime destroyed by Irish
people in North Wales or others flooding in, was South East Wales. Glamorgan & Gwent, bits
of Brecon and maybe the Red Cantref, Gloucester to the west of the Severn. The kingdom known
as Essyllwg, meaning, 'abounding in prospects', corrupted to Siluria by the Romans. That is
where the alphabet and cyphers were preserved. Now the preservation of them is extremely
valuable we found a person writing in 1897, a publication in 1848 from Oxford, a publication
in 1852 and a publication in 1906 saying it's it strange that the Welsh British ancient
alphabet is identical or near identical to the old Etruscan alphabet and the Pelagian
alphabet of the Aegean and Turkey. Now we've got an alphabet going back in that way. Theo
Chalmers: We've got an alphabet going East or coming from the East. Alan Wilson: Well
I would think it came from the East. This starts you thinking because the name of the
Ten Tribes of Israel as recorded by the Assyrians was the Khumry K-H-U-M-R-Y. Theo Chalmers:
Which sounds very familiar to me because it's on all those cars that drive across the Severn
bridge isn't it? Cymru. Alan Wilson: Since about 1900 they've dropped the K-H and replaced
it with a hard C but the correct spelling up until about 1900 was K-H-U-M-R-Y. That's
the Ten Tribes of Israel. Theo Chalmers: I've got to stop you there. So are you saying then
that the early Brits were in fact the Ten Tribes of Israel, the lost Ten Tribes? Alan
Wilson: Well they didn't get lost, they knew where they were, nobody else did. Theo Chalmers:
They were hiding in Wales. Alan Wilson: That's right. Well in the whole of Western Britain
actually, probably Lancashire, Cumbria and right up to Strathclyde. But the point is
this, when Austen Layard dug up the Assyrian Emperors at Nineveh and he did this in 1846.
The first find was 25,000 clay baked tablets with all their writing on. He packed them
up and sent them off to London to the British Museum. Later Layard's assistant, Hormuzd
Rassam, an Arab gentleman found another 5000. When these tablets got to the British Museum
they were looking at them and they suddenly realised, wow, some of these have got the
ancient British alphabet. Now there's a coincidence. Now, you've got the alphabet right through
Turkey the Assyrians now have it in correspondence probably sent to them. So we reasoned this,
if the alphabet stretches back in that direction how much further does it go. Now Jim Michael
in Kentucky who was researching with us, he was in the American inscriptions, we managed
to get a picture in a magazine of a Dead Sea Scroll scholar examining the Dead Sea Scrolls.
Of all the Scrolls two are copper, the two that are copper are not in Aramaic and they're
not in the same alphabet. They are in a different alphabet, different language. Professor Kyle
McCarter said he was going to decipher them but he never did. He didn't know what the
alphabet was and he didn't know what the language was but "it was Hebrew". We thought if these
Khumry of the Assyrians are the Ten Tribes are the Khumry of Wales, that is the route
we are following back then it's highly likely that this could be Coelbren. It was abundantly
clear so I went out to America to meet Jim Michael and I knew what he was going to do,
he I'm going somewhere Friday night, so we drove through all this rain and we got to
a Baptist College. They actually had some photographs of the Copper Scrolls, the problem
was the people who had got hold of these, a small group of scholars had hogged them
and nobody else could get at them and it wasn't until Robert Eisenman a distinguished scholar
said look we've had 40 years of nonsense here, everybody is entitled to see them. They hadn't
been able to decipher them. A Polish priest named Malik had got hold of the Copper Scrolls
and it took him 40 years and he didn't get there. The point is, we managed to get a photograph
of the scrolls. But the photographs must have been taken in the middle of thunderstorm on
a dead dark night with a Box Brownie camera. You could really see them. It was clear they
didn't want you to see them. But I just counted the number of letters, you see, there was
17 in that line and his sort of version, he was trying to twist them into Aramaic letters
so that would say 14 because he joined two together and another one would have 20 and
he'd have 25. They weren't Aramaic but we managed to see some of it fairly clearly.
In two and a half hours we had translated five lines quite clearly, into Welsh, and
he'd spent 40 years getting nowhere. Theo Chalmers: What does it say? Alan Wilson: It's
about the Ten Tribes of Israel, how they are arranged and presumably what land they are
to occupy. Now the interesting thing about the Copper Scrolls is this, they had to cut
them apart to read them, they couldn't unroll them, they had to cut them into two inch strips
and then lay them out. Theo Chalmers: Are they written on just one side? Alan Wilson:
Yes just one side. When you look at them all along the top and all along the bottom are
signs of holes are there are tear marks, rip marks. Theo Chalmers: So they've been fixed
to a wall? Alan Wilson: They've been nailed to a wall and someone's ripped them off. Well
if you think about it, Solomon put golden shields, plates up on the walls of the temple
in Jerusalem. These were stolen by Shishak, a Pharoah and Rehoboam the son of Solomon
didn't have the money to put gold plates back so he put copper ones up to replace them.
Now the temple was later ransacked certainly by Nebuchadnezzar. It looks to me that some
pious person has ripped them off the wall, rolled them up and put them in a jar and hid
them in a cave in Qumran. But it's the same alphabet, there's no doubt at all and it can
be deciphered. Then we found that a Croatian explorer had gone to Egypt and he'd found
a mummy and this mummy was wrapped in 32ft long brown piece of cloth it's plastered from
one end to the other in Coelbren. The Welsh/British Coelbren alphabet. This was in Zagreb. The
Zagreb Shroud. The problem with the Zagreb Shroud is that you could see it because it
was behind the Iron Curtain, we've been at this now a long time. Finally a very distinguished
lady in television in America Diane Sawyer she got us copies of the Zagreb Shroud. So
we managed to amass this stuff and we decided that it was best to try and work our way backwards
slowly. There are stones in Scotland, Wales and England which have the Coelbren alphabet
on them. So we'd worked on them, they'd read out. So we went to read the ones in Italy,
I remember writing to Glyn Daniels who was a professor at Cambridge about the inscriptions
on stones in Val Camonica and he wrote back saying there are no inscriptions on any stones
in Val Camonica. So I sent him a photograph and he wrote back saying I wish this correspondence
to be discontinued. He didn't want to know. Theo Chalmers: Is it because they are a bit
*** about who they will talk to? Alan Wilson: Well I got some sympathy, I talked at length
to a Classics professor at Swansea and he said I've got to keep my wife and family I
need a job. They've got themselves in a situation where they all march in step to the same tune
and nobody dares to break ranks. This is the problem they've got and there's not enough
dialogue. I can spend all time doing this research, they can't, they're lecturing students,
preparing papers, marking papers, they're holding seminars. They can't do research to
the extent that people like us can and therefore we've got something to offer them. Now I want
to be clear, myself and my colleague have always been ready to give them copies of what
we do and to cooperate with any of them. Theo Chalmers: You're books are full of photographs
of evidence aren't they? Alan Wilson: We've got masses. We've got the complete translation
of an Egyptian stele. They can have it anytime they like. Theo Chalmers: What about the hieroglyphs?
Alan Wilson: Well where were we? The Ten Tribes of Israel are taken away from Jerusalem, Solomon's
temples there. Amaziah King of Judah, Two Tribes, he's had a successful battle with
the Edomites and he's going to attack Ten Tribe Israel and he's warned there's a famous
verse in the Bible about a passing bull stepping on a thistle, he's the thistle. Don't do it.
Well he got hammered his army is destroyed, he's tied behind a chariot of Jehoash the
Israelite King, goes to Jerusalem pulls down 200 yards of the wall and Jehoash then takes
everything from the palace and take everything from the temple. Including the Ark. You've
got to realise it's it Kings and Chronicles in the Bible and it's in Flavius Josephus.
Theo Chalmers: ...and wasn't there a family who was looking after the Ark for generations.
Alan Wilson: The Family of Obed Edom. He took them as well. There would be no point in taking
the family of Obed Edom if he didn't take the Ark. So we said hang on the Ark has left
the temple and it's gone north to Sumeria in 790 BC. What we did is, we tried to translate
the Etruscan tablets. They went north to Sumeria, 687 Sennacherib gets murdered in a temple
by two of his sons and the heir who was the eldest son has a civil war with his two younger
brothers. The Ten Tribes take off and they cross the Euphrates going west through Turkey
- second Book of Esdras, chapter 14, right. They are going through Turkey and the Greeks
pick up on them and they call these Khumry the Kimmeroi. Kimmeroi - Khumry right? They
get to the Dardanelles, half of the people stay there and the other half go to Italy.
Theo Chalmers: The Dardanelles are in Turkey aren't they? Alan Wilson: Yes, at the end
of Turkey where there's a little gap where you go out into the Black Sea, the Bosphorus.
Where the great city is that was named after Constantine. So anyway, by looking at the
Etruscan writings we found we could read them and the Etruscans were very convenient in
that after each word they put a dot so you can tell the length of the word. Theo Chalmers?
So they invented the full stop? Alan Wilson: I think so, well certainly between individual
words. When translating it, it comes out in a 'Ye olde English' sort of way, there is
an element of that in the language but you can discern it. So we started off with little
inscriptions like on wine jugs and we worked our way up to the big stelae. You know, big
stones plastered with it. This is in Italy now with the Etruscans, we've moved from Britain,
to Italy with the Etruscans and we are on our way to Turkey. We're going back in time.
There's a famous bronze tablet, now you've got to realise bronze is extremely valuable
in that day and age. Theo Chalmers: So you're not going to write a shopping list on it?
Alan Wilson: They reckon that the writing on both sides is a menu. It's like going down
to Ali's takeaway and seeing it in gold. It's ridiculous. There are three sections to it
and the first one says how the people are in a place where there is great pestilence
and storms and they're unhappy. They are taken away from this and they are following a little
cabinet riding in a cart. Theo Chalmers: So this is the Ark? Alan Wilson: I think so.
...and they come to a place where they are content and happy and that's where they live.
The second section says they are taken away forcibly to a place where they are unhappy
and to get there they follow a little cabinet that rides in a cart. Theo Chalmers: I'm going
to read a couple of texts out now just so the audience get into the room as it were.
Paul in Warrington: Is the Ark of the Covenant a person, possibly Mary or is it fictitious?
Alan Wilson: We believe it is as in the Bible and we'll come to that and I'd like to answer
the gentleman's question as we go. Russell from Llantwit Major: I've followed Alan's
& Baram's work for many years and it's great to see it finally revealed to the world. Alan
Wilson: Thank you. Excellent. By the way in Llantwit Major there's a 9 foot high stone
that's weighs 7 tonnes and on it's got Ithael who is one of the two sons of Arthur II, It's
got Illtyd who's the man who buried Arthur and at the bottom it's got Arthmael - Iron
Bear, the Welsh name for Arthur. It's not good looking for Jesus in Wales you've got
to look for Iesu, it's no good looking for George you've got to look for Gweryd and you
can't look for Edward you've got Iowerth and so on. But Arthmael - Iron Bear that's him.
It's on a 9 foot stone, weighs 7 tonnes and that's why you can't find it. Anyway. So we're
in Italy. The Agnone Tablet and it's got three stories and the third story is that again
take off again and they follow a little cabinet riding in a cart. Theo Chalmers: Because of
the pestilence? Alan Wilson: No. The pestilence is the first one. The second one they're forcibly
taken away and the third one, they are unhappy where they are so they take off and they follow
the little cabinet riding in a cart, to the sea, the sea being the Dardanelles, I would
think. So we think that's the journey from Egypt under Moses, the deportation under the
four Assyrian Emperors Tiglath-Pileser III, Sargon II, Shalmaneser V and Sennacherib.
In one stele of Sennacherib he describes in one of his deportations he removed 200,120
people so these are not small groups. Theo Chalmers: That's a huge diaspora isn't it?
Alan Wilson: Well they went through Asia Minor and the Greeks called them the Kimmeroi -- the
Khumry, you see, and they were like a tidal wave, nothing could stop them. Half go to
Italy, half stay there. Theo Chalmers: Like locusts in sense. Alan Wilson: Oh eye, they
would take some stopping. So the other half stay there and then they come to Britain in
500. Now we're still translating. We've moved from Italy, we're in the Aegean now. One the
island of Lemnos a stele was found in 1876 and it's plastered with Coelbren writing and
there's a man holding a spear, a big guy with a spear and it tells how the people have gathered
there. In the British records it says the people gathered on the island of Goetia which
is Lemnos. In the records it says they gathered their fleet on this island. The stele tells
how they are being directed by the God and they are going to sail together to a great
green island out in the Western ocean. That's what it says. Theo Chalmers: So out through
the Straits of Gibraltar and to the UK. Alan Wilson: To the UK. Now they picked up three
or four other groups on route; one with Corineus who goes to Cornwall. So here is a story matching
the British record of the gathering on an island to sail to the UK and the secret is
this language and alphabet perfectly preserved. Theo Chalmers: So the evidence is all there
you just have to look for it. Alan Wilson: There's a lot of stele along through Turkey
and they also are in the same alphabet so you've got it right through the Aegean, right
through Turkey, the Assyrians had it, Austen Layard found it and then we've got it on the
Copper Scrolls. Theo Chalmers: Have any academics challenged your interpretation of these alphabets
or of this alphabet and this language? Alan Wilson: No. Would you get in the ring with
Mike Tyson? ...No we don't want a slanging match, again, we've always been willing to
cooperate. They are running for cover and I think as I said they've got to keep a job.
They're not in a free society where they can say what they like. John Collis a professor
at Sheffield University said look, there's no Celtic people in Britain and there never
were because Celts in Britain were invented in 1714. No Celts in Britain. Theo Chalmers:
So it's made up! Our history is made up! Alan Wilson: If you get rid of the history of Albyne
and Brutus and everything else you've got to give the people a new name haven't you?
So they said they're Celts. Theo Chalmers: What about the Anglo-Saxons? Alan Wilson:
Well the Anglo-Saxons are not Celts, they stuck it onto Scots who are Picts, they've
stuck it on the Welsh and they've stuck it on the Irish. But the Irish history says they
come from the upper regions of the Tigris. Well hardly Celts. This Celtic business is
complete nonsense. John Collis of Sheffield University at a conference said that there
were no Celts in Britain and he explained this and was he unpopular. He wrote to me
and said hey I'm keeping away from this. Theo Chalmers: We're going to come back for some
more shocking news after the break so if you'd like to text in your questions why not do
so now and we'll see you very soon. Welcome back to On The Edge with me Theo Chalmers
and my special guest Alan Wilson. Alan this is just getting better and better I've got
to say. So here we are the Ten Tribes of Israel have been forced out of their original homeland,
they've come through Turkey, Italy and now they're leaving the Med for a big green island.
What happens next? Alan Wilson: What happens next is that we have established a firm trail
and a trail of the people which matches evidence. If the alphabets right, the translations right,
our histories say they gathered on the island of Goetia -- Lemnos and it all seems to work
together and fit very well. Theo Chalmers: So where did they land? Alan Wilson: Well
certainly one group landed in Cornwall, another group appeared to have landed in South Wales
in the Aberavon area. There's a famous story of one of the local kings opposes them and
they finish up having single combat which saved a lot of lives on both sides and the
Khumry leader throws this guy down. There's a place called the 'Top of the Fall' and the
'Bottom of the Fall' where he threw him down a hill and other place names. It's certain
a group would have landed in Totnes in Devon, that's very well, it's so solidly thought
of now I wouldn't doubt it. But another major group would have come up the Severn to South
Wales that's fairly obvious. Theo Chalmers: So you've got a very large number of people
from the Middle East settling down in their new land, bringing their language, bringing
their alphabet, now obviously eventually although they still speak Welsh Khumric or they did
for a long time, the alphabet changed didn't it because now they use the Arabic alphabet.
Alan Wilson: Well I think it was Richard II prohibited the use of writing materials in
Wales and certainly Henry IV made it illegal to own writing materials in Wales and this
has sort of gone on and on. When William Caxton established the first printing press in 1474
they prohibited printing in Wales until 1692. Theo Chalmers: So for over 200 years. Alan
Wilson: The damage was done but the worse thing in 1846 they had what the Welsh call
'The Treachery of the Blue Books' and a parliamentary commission came and di the usual thing and
came back with a pack of lies as it were in the Blue Book and the English government sacked
every school teacher in Wales. Now you've got to realise all the Welsh population spoke
Welsh and about 10% spoke some English and they replaced every school teacher in Wales
with an Englishman who couldn't speak Welsh. So you had English teachers who couldn't speak
Welsh in every school and a class of kids who couldn't speak English. Theo Chalmers:
So it's cultural genocide really isn't it? Alan Wilson: Correct. The perfect term; cultural
genocide. They've been at it for years. The people up in North Wales preserved it more
because whereas there are more Welsh speakers in South Wales, there's a much greater population
whereas in North Wales it's more scattered between a smaller population. That's where
they set up the universities of Aberystwyth and Bangor first and Cardiff and Swansea followed
later and they weren't set up with grants from big rich people or anything like that,
they were the pennies collected from slate workers, miners and farm labourers to set
up tiny universities. But it was a bit orientated towards the north. Theo Chalmers: But the
language survived. Alan Wilson: Yes and in 1896 professor Sir John Morris Jones he wrote
a thesis and he showed how the structure of the ancient Egyptian language was identical
to the complicated structure and syntax of the Welsh language. So he was on to this.
Theo Chalmers: Yes hieroglyphs. Now you've got to realise if these people were in Egypt
and Moses took them out then the trail is into Palestine or Israel and Judea and it's
then up through the north into Assyria and then it's through Turkey and there are plenty
of inscriptions in Turkey, all the way through, then it's in the Aegean and then it's in Italy
and Switzerland and then it comes to the UK. So you've got a lovely trail and if they started
off in Egypt it should surprise no one if there is a link there. Theo Chalmers: Well
Alan we've upset lots of people already so I think it's time that we upset a few more.
If the Ten Tribes of Israel are the Welsh, who are the people who are claiming Israel
today? Alan Wilson: In the 8th century, the King of Khazars which was an empire in Southern
Russia taking in the Crimea, a huge area and they had about 22 subject nations under them.
The Khazar Empire was ruled by the great Khagan of the Khazars and he was Bulan. Bulan was
under pressure by the Caliphs and Sultans to become Islamic. The Pope or Bishop of Rome
through the Greek Church wanted them to become Christians so he had delegations to come and
see him. One was a delegation of Muslim people, one was a delegation of Roman Catholics, one
was a delegation from the Greek Church, one was some Greek Platonic theorists and another
delegation was Judea people and they thought it over and they said we're not going to become
Islamic, we're not going to become Christains, we're going to go with the Jewish religion
that will do us fine. They all started adopting Jewish names 'Obadiah' and all this sort of
thing. So the Khazars were a Mongel-Finn nation in that area of Eastern Europe and they become
Jewish by religion and not by race or descent. Now it's not my figures, it's figures from
numbers of scholars, Arthur Koestler a Jewish person wrote a book 'The Thirteenth Tribe'
they're Jews by religion but not by blood. Theo Chalmers: So you're saying the people
living in Israel now are very largely descended from Khazars. Alan Wilson: The calculation
done by others not by me is 19 to 1. Sephardic Jews are 1 in 20. Theo Chalmers: So how come
they don't speak Welsh? Alan Wilson: Well they lost the language, they came to Babylon,
they came back, they'd lost their language....and in Jesus's time they were speak Aramaic and
they wrote the Gospels in Greek and translated them to Latin, I mean it's a mess. Theo Chalmers:
So where did Hebrew come from? Alan Wilson: It's a resurrected language, in a way they've
tried to recover it. All I can tell you if what we've found. Theo Chalmers: It seems
odd that they don't speak Aramaic in Israel? Alan Wilson: Well they're speaking Yiddish
which is the Eastern European version. Theo Chalmers: There's Classical Hebrew isn't there?
Alan Wilson: Yes but what its providence is, is rather uncertain. I can only tell you what
we've done and we're open to discuss it with anyone what we've done and how we do it. So
we get now to Moses bringing them out of Egypt and we thought well why not? Champollion was
aged about 22-23 and he's got Ipolitto Rosselini with him aged 18 claiming to be a professor
and they got to Egypt and they come up with this and they say well, we can't find the
word in Coptic and that's because the word has changed so much over the generations and
centuries that it's no longer recognisable so once upon a time it was c-a-t but now it's
d-o-g but it means the same thing. Then they said we can't find it in Coptic we'll look
for it in Aramaic, we can't find it in Aramaic, we'll try and find it in Hebrew and it we
can't find it there we'll guess. Theo Chalmers: So that's what they did. Alan Wilson: So that's
what they did. Theo Chalmers: So we'll get back to hieroglyphs in a minute I just want
to read you a text I've got, It's important to know that if you send long texts the ends
get cut off and I don't get to read them unfortunately. There's a standard text limit, I'm not sure
how many characters that is but that's what they're limited to. So someone has texted
in and said; I'm fascinated by this topic how can I find out more about Alan's work?
I'd love to be involved in this research could my phone number be passed on? Theo Chalmers:
Well no because we haven't got it. But there is a website isn't there? Alan Wilson: We've
got a website. I forget what it is. Theo Chalmers: Just Google Alan Wilson and Baram Blackett.
I'll spell Baram Blackett for you, B-a-r-a-m B-l-a-c-k-e-t-t. Alan Wilson: It's King Arthur's
Legacy, it's kingarthurslegacy.co.uk (com). I'm so tired I'm forgetting. Theo Chalmers:
So moving right along then. Let's talk about the Ark of the Covenant? Alan Wilson: Yeah
sure. Well what we did we realised that we had an authentic history and it is very, very
real. So there are 13 ancient tales in Wales and they are called the Mabinogi. Now they've
restyled them the Mabinogion which means children's tales which has shielded them from the Church
I think but Mabinogi seems to mean 'origins'. The first four are tales of origin and that
means the origin of the Solar System and you get stories like Matholwch is the flood and
he marries Branwen the breaking waves and her brother is the great thunder god Bran
and so on; and the flood and breaking waves are receding and they have a son Gwern who
is a swamp. So you start to see that it's the flood of creation. So we realised these were genuine tales saying
things about storms and comets, comets coming into our Solar System, Venus going out of
orbit which is matching the observations of Babylonian and other observatories. They say
all these guys didn't know what they were doing because Venus didn't do that; it did.
So we then had another couple of stories which are how to read the stories, you follow me?
It's all wound up with names but it's really talking about planets and so on. But the last
three are important and the last three are Peredur son of Efrawg, Peredur is steel shirt
he's the planet Jupiter. There's Geraint and Enid, Geraint is Mars, strength and the other
one is Owen and Owen is Orion. When you realise they are solar stories, we've got constellation
in the heavens and the planets move through the constellations because they're orbiting
the sun. My colleague asked me one day and he said what's the name of that mound there?
It's called Blaediad -- 'The Ferocious Warrior' and a big penny dropped, we don't looked at
Greek and Roman things, we look at ancient Hebrew as far as we can, ancient Egyptian
and Babylonian sort of names. The name that they gave to the star that we know as Hercules
is 'The Ferocious Warrior'. Then we realised there's another big mound called Twmbarlwm
-- 'The He-Goat' -- Capricorn and at another the place there's a shrine hidden in a little
valley. I don't know whether ten people know where it is in Wales and it shows the Egyptian
Goddess Hathor stretched out in an arch and other things. So we knew that if we had three
mounds we could triangulate and find the Pole Star and *** right on target we've got a
standing stone. There are 70 or 80 of these mound they're big, they're not little, some
of them are monster mounds of earth and we realised that these mounds form a gigantic
star map on the landscape. Theo Chalmers: We've got a picture of that, it might take
a couple of minutes so keep talking. Alan Wilson: So we found that right across Glamorgan
for about 45 miles and about 30 miles north and south. Theo Chalmers: Is this it? Alan
Wilson: No that's the central point; I'll come on to that, keep it up. Now in the one
story, it tells how Arthur gathers the army and we know where he gathered it, down at
Merthyr Mawr and they fight the Battle of Badon. Now no scholar can find the Battle
of Badon at Mynydd Baedan. It's on the map, it says Mynydd Baedan. On the way back from
the Battle of Badon he's going home. Well that would be going home to this place north
of Cardiff because Baedan is in the Maesteg Valley. Half way along they stop and a strange game is played called Gwd. There's
one there you see with houses built around it. There's a mound there. That is one of
the outlying stars of Orion. Theo Chalmers: What you're saying is that on the ground in
Wales are huge man-made mounds that are placed in the same positions as the stars. Alan Wilson:
There's three up on the Garth Mountain near Pentyrch and they are the belt of Orion and
once you find one or two you can go out and look for the others. Spot on. They're much
bigger than that most of them. Theo Chalmers: So what did these star maps tell you? Alan
Wilson: Well what happens is this game of Gwd -- star knowledge is played between Athur
and Prince Owen. They've said it is chess but it's not it's star knowledge. Three games
are won by Arthur and a rider comes each time to warn Owen that his soldiers are being defeated.
Three games are won by Owen and each time a rider comes to tell Arthur his boys are
in trouble from giant ravens. This is a story in the Mabinogi. You can find the site where
this took place because Arthur's servant is a red man on a red horse with a red cloak
and you know they've white chalk horse on a hillside in Salisbury in England; well they've
got a red man on a red horse on one in Wales but nobody writes about that. It's there,
giant thing. That's where this game takes place. Each of the six riders has an emblem.
Ones got an emblem on his helmet or his shield of a serpent, another a leopard (Camelopardalis),
another has got a lion (Leo) and each one has a solar or stellar emblem. If you go to
the Senghenydd Valley, for four miles along the side of the valley, right along the hilltops
each side and two miles across the top is a ditch and a mound. It can't be for water
because it goes up and down. There are six monuments laid around the sides, three on
each side and we realised the Pole Star is in the Senghenydd Valley and these are directions
to the different...serpent, Leo, Capricorn and this was central to the building of the
star map. Senghenydd Valley. Senghenydd is not Saint Cenydd, son of Gildas, it's central
place of the nation, it's more important than you think. So we were able to look at this
and we realised that...I heard when I was a child, there's a legend in North Cardiff
and north of Cardiff and most people knew it when I was young and it's 'a great wooden
chest is buried containing a great treasure and it's guarded by two Cigfrangawr -- giant
ravens'. Theo Chalmers: Which looks very much like the Arc of the Covenant? Alan Wilson:
Well I didn't realise that for years and there were people until recently going out on a
sunny afternoon going out with their metal detector and sandwiches and looking for it.
Two brothers up in the Maesteg Valley over to the Rhondda went out about 14 years and
they sat down to have lunch and they had their metal detectors and they put their metal detectors
down as they sat down and one of them had left theirs turn on and it went beep, beep,
beep and they thought they'd found it but actually they'd found £90,000 worth of Roman
coins. The point is they were looking for this giant treasure chest. Now it sounds awfully
like the Arc doesn't it? Theo Chalmers: Well it does to me because the pictures of the
arc are with two kneeling angels. Alan Wilson: Well they're Cherubim they're not angels believe
me. We reasoned that if we found Leo and the star Regulus, there's two first magnitude
stars in Leo, ones Denebola ones' Regulus. If we found Regulus the emblem of the tribe
of Judah is the lion. There's a huge mound right on target. Now, Ynys-y-Byl means enclosure
or special place of the notch. Ynys-y-Byl B-Y-L or B-I-L means enclosure of the arc.
Now the Welsh are famous for misdirecting the English in this spelling thing, believe
it. Now the central area of it is called Gollwg. That's the site of the mound, it's a giant
mound of Regulus in Leo. The central area is called Gollwg which means 'place of worship'.
Now somebody in antiquity has built a stone wall right around the top with no gate. Now
the other thing is, if you look at it, it's too smooth, it's not natural. X marks the
spot. Theo Chalmers: So hold on let me just tie you down here Alan. Is this where the
Arc of the Covenant is? Alan Wilson: Yes. In our opinion yes and I'll tell you why.
On the north side are five depressions which bowl shaped in the earth and there are pits
in them full of white stones. The white stones were actually brought from Cornwall they're
not from anywhere else. The way of draining an underground chamber in Britain, they had
to drain them because of the wet weather. There's a sump leading down to a pit full
of white stones which is in a bowl shaped depression so the water would come down out
of the chamber and seep out and drift away so it wouldn't flood out. There are five of
these and they are nothing else apart from ancient drains; they are, we know that. So
this mound has got five ancient drains along the north side and there are signs of tunnelling;
see the lines on the bottom there, they can only be one thing and that is stones thrown
out of a tunnel and they've tumbled down the hill. They is signs of tunnelling there. Now
what we did we got ground penetrating radar which was not working very good, we needed
a better person and we also have this wonderful metal detector of our and we put that on it
with the farmers permission of course and it's obviously man-made and bingo there's
an object there 2 feet long 4 feet wide and it's non-ferrous metal. It's metal. The machine
goes bizzizizziz and when it hits metal it goes bing bing bing. We don't know how deep
it is, it's near the surface. Theo Chalmers: So deep in that mound is a metal object which
is non-ferrous metal which is the size and shape that the Arc is supposed to be as described
in the Bible. Alan Wilson: ...and it's named the place of worship, the enclosure of the
arc. Theo Chalmers: Well it's quite a revelatory show this isn't it? Alan Wilson: It's good
stuff. We did one other thing, as you get to the gap in the wall, you walk up the side
of the mountain on the north side you get to a gap in the wall to go through; can't
still see the mound going on ahead, above you. So you've got a bit of climbing to do.
A friend of ours the cursor on it with Google Earth and he got to that spot and it was 902
feet and as he moved it across it should go up 60 feet but it didn't it stayed at 902
feet 903 feet. Theo Chalmers: So it doesn't show the stuff that's man-made... Alan Wilson:
So we had a conference, them in Cardiff and us in Newcastle and we both had Google Earth
on and I said let's go to the Empire State building in New York. So we went along the
street and when you get off the street and go to the Empire State building you should
go up 1200 feet, it didn't, it went down 60 feet, it went into the cellar. Theo Chalmers:
Alan we're going to go for another break now. If you'd like to text in your comments or
questions to Alan Wilson why not do so now, just text 87778 with the word EDGE with your
text and we'll see you back here very soon for more exciting stuff. Welcome back to On
The Edge with me Theo Chalmers and my special guest Alan Wilson. Alan, we've touched on
some amazing stuff all of which you claim to have evidence for and you say this evidence
has been there a very, very long time but has been ignored by mainstream academics.
Would you be prepared to open yourself up to academia and let them talk to you and see
your evidence? Alan Wilson: We'd like nothing better, absolutely. We're not a closed shop;
the door is open, wide open. I'll do it live on TV if you want? The doors wide open. Theo
Chalmers: It seems to me this history of the British people is so fascinating, so new isn't?
Just in terms of the tourist industry. Alan Wilson: Well we've met Lord Jack Brooks many
years ago in the House of Lords to tell him what we were doing and we hadn't got as far
along down the line as we are now and he said if you're right there's 20,000 jobs in this
and he then explained how it would be restaurants, cafes, taxi drivers, coach trips, hotels and
all that. If you've got a tourist industry you make the industry in Britain you don't
make it in Hong Kong and bring it here. We think we could create about 30,000 jobs there
and the thing with tourist jobs it's not a thing that can be uprooted and taken to a
different area, it's there permanently. It doesn't ever go away. If I was them, I tell
you what I would do, I would set-up a statue like the Statue of Liberty -- that's an icon.
You've got the Eiffel Tower, you've got the statue of Jesus on the Corcovado Mountain
in Rio right? I'd build a gigantic statue of Arthur with a sword raised. Theo Chalmers:
Which Arthur I or II? Alan Wilson: It doesn't matter, you know what I mean. I would create
and icon like that and I would get into this history positively and exploit it. Now we've
never touched a site that we've found. Theo Chalmers: No you haven't dug for the Arc have
you? Alan Wilson: No no. Theo Chalmers: Somebody's texted in here and said 'it might be a bad
idea to state where there is metal buried even if it is the Arc. Someone might dig it
up for scrap metal. Alan Wilson: Well for one thing, a guy breeds dogs at the bottom
of the hill, there's a park ranger who responsible for overseeing the countryside and there are
two farmhouses on one side and a manor house on the other side. Theo Chalmers: Do they
know? Alan Wilson: Oh yes, they all know. We told them. We're always above board with
farmers, we've never told them anything but the truth. Theo Chalmers: Well surely they'd
be interested in finding it? Alan Wilson: They can't believe it. They're busy farming
sheep and you come along and say this and they're "ehh?" Theo Chalmers: Yes you're sitting
on the Arc of the Covenant, that's going to make your day isn't it. Alan Wilson: Yes I
think they're fairly open minded but I think they, as we would, welcome academic participation.
We'd welcome it. Have no bones about it. We did try, we got somebody in the astronomy
department of Cardiff University very interested in this with the mounds and he went to the
history department and the archaeology department and said hey how about getting involved in
this and they wouldn't. They said there'd been some sort of bust up with us. There hadn't
been a bust up, we've never spoke to them. How can you have a bust up with someone you
haven't talked to? Theo Chalmers: I suppose because your research is so out of line with
their accepted history of Britain that they don't want to face that. Alan Wilson: Prove
us wrong! Theo Chalmers: Well OK there is a challenge. Academics, if you're watching
or if you're watching this in repeat prove Alan wrong. Alan Wilson: Well there are 25
histories of Helen of the Cross that is the mother of Constantine the Great, the great
Empress, wife of Constantius Chlorus. She goes to Mount Sinai with Moses, she went into
Jerusalem in 325-326 AD and she said give me the Cross. This is the Cross that Jesus
was nailed on. Well after a lot of torture and one thing or another she gets this piece
of timber. She makes the nails into a bridle bit for her son's horse Constantine the Great
and sends him to Constantinople. She's British you see and she gets in her ship and sails
back to the UK. This is recorded in the Exeter book and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles 25 other
different histories. So the Cross is in the UK. When Edward I killed Llywelyn the Last
in North Wales he demanded that he hand over the Cross to him and he said we can't. Theo
Chalmers: So you're saying that part of the Cross that Christ was crucified on... Alan
Wilson: Well that's what they were saying then. I don't know if it's genuine or not
but that's what she thought it was. Theo Chalmers: But this is in the histories your saying?
Alan Wilson: It's in the histories and it's in the UK so we said let's go look for it.
That's the logical thing to do. Theo Chalmers: There's no stopping you is there Alan? Alan
Wilson: So wait a minute; there's actually a record written around 920 and recopied about
1100 saying where it is. Theo Chalmers: Where the Cross is? Alan Wilson: Yes it says where
it is. It's in West Wales. Theo Chalmers: West Wales is a bit of a broad pallet? Alan
Wilson: Well how much do you want to know? Again you've got a star pattern down there,
buy yourself a star map and you'll see Cygnus the Swan. Cygnus the Swan is the shape of
a cross. There are two outlying, one big one, one big one and one big one down here. So
we know that is marking the cross area. Now down there is the Castle of the Great Helen
in Welsh it's a ruined castle. It's in West Wales in Newport, Pembrokeshire. There's the
Castle of the Great Helen, the Ridge of the Empress (Cefn Banon), the River of the Empress
(Afon Banon), River of the Sanctuary, and so on. I said to my colleague can you get
up on the highest spot and get a telescope and see if you can find anything down the
centre line of the cross. If you mark it out on a map you can see where you are. He went
up and he said there's a strange pile of big white stones in a field. Well these big white
stones must cover about 20 yards by about 5 or 6 now but it appears to have been laid
out in a boat shape which is early Christian in Wales anyway and they're the size of this
desk nearly, I mean they're whacking big stones. Half the size some of them. Now the only place
you can get whacking big stones of that type is seven miles away so someone's brought them
up onto this low hill. Theo Chalmers: So they've done it for a serious purpose then haven't
they. Alan Wilson: That's right and we found a depression that looks like a track going
about 200 yards down this hill slope to where the road levels out. Down there the farmer
took us along and there was a large round stone and we rolled it aside and there was
a little porch built of stone. This thing had come from these white stones in a diagonal
line, you see, down the slope. So we got a JCB and we cut across this line and someone
in antiquity has dug...On a Welsh hill you get a layer of earth so much then you get
a bit of shale and then you get solid rocks and stones. In this case someone had dug a
trench 7 foot deep and 5 feet wide 200 yards down the hill. They'd put all the big stones
at the bottom and all the loose stones at the top; in other words it's a perfect way
to create a drain. So they're draining the water away from whatever is under the white
stones. We think Helen is buried there. So we've done this sort of research and again,
nobody wants to join with us. As for the Arc, again for the Cross we've put a metal detector
and it shows up an object 4 to 4 and a ½ feet long and about a foot by a foot and it's non-ferrous metal. It's a matter
of applying techniques that you use in industry to historical analysis. Theo Chalmers: ...and
you have spent over 30 years doing this, seriously. Alan Wilson: The trick is you read the records
instead of discarding them. They've thrown the baby out and kept the bath water. You
read the records and you say this is genuine record, what is in it? Theo Chalmers: OK I'm
going to read out a couple of texts. Mandy in Marcross in Wales asks, 'Is there a palace
of the kings in Glamorgan. Alan Wilson: Yes, now 652 AD a comet struck Britain. It devastated
the whole of Britain and much Britain was destroyed and people killed. You couldn't
enter the devastated land for 6 to 11 years. The army was taken over to Brittany and waited.
Arthur II was over in Brittany. A comet devastated Britain. This was written out of the history
books. You see the Angles and Saxons then moved in from Germany into empty lands. That
is how all the Roman towns, all the Roman style towns and cities in Britain were devastated.
Now when we started saying this of course there was an uproar but Professor Michael
Baillie at Queen's University Belfast, he's a dendrochronologist -- the study of trees,
he noted that all the forests of Britain and Ireland were devastated at this time. He thought
it was 535 AD but we said 562 AD. The point is you couldn't say debris from a comet had
hit planet Earth because the Church would go nuts. The Roman Church believed no stone
could fall from heaven onto Earth. It wasn't until 1803 when large parts of a meteorite
hit southern France that they had to admit. Theo Chalmers: Here we go, here's the path
of the comet. Alan Wilson: Now what's happening now, in Bolivia, the University of Southern
Pennsylvania and the Chicago Museum and University of Texas are all over Bolivia and they've
got a pretty good date on this and they say 562 AD Bolivia was devastated by debris from
a comet. The land was uninhabitable for 7 to 11 years, identical. The pyramids, made
of mud brick, the palaces, the towns, the walls, the cities; everything was destroyed
and the only survivors had to move down to the coast to survive. Identical story in Britain
and identical story in Bolivia, same time. Theo Chalmers: So your saying this comet passed
over Britain, caused a huge amount of devastation and then crossed over the Atlantic... Alan
Wilson: It devastated parts of Ireland as noted in Irish ancient records. It did happen.
Gregory of Tours in the History of the Franks mentions how both islands, Ireland and Britain
were set on fire from end to end and destroyed and the date is again right. So that's the
destruction of Arthurs Britain. In the medieval romances you get the great wastelands where
it's death to enter and we searched forever for places names to see if we could find anything
related. But this destruction of Britain by a comet, that's why the...you see the archaeologists
were saying at one time a hundred and odd years ago, the population of Britain in Caesar's
time was 500 to 1000 then it became a million then they crept up to 2 million and now they're
taking aerial photographs now which they couldn't do and it's up to 9 million now. This was
a very big powerful country and this is how the British king could invade Gaul. Theo Chalmers:
We've got a photo of the palace excavations somewhere. Alan Wilson: The Palace of the
Kings is just outside Llantwit Major. It covers about 4 to 5 acres, the walls stick up from
under the ground; they started excavating about 1903. They were excavating in 1903 and
men in suits arrived, people from London and stopped the excavation. Theo Chalmers: So
we've got an ancient palace in Wales and instead of excavating it as you'd expect archaeologists
to do it's being ignored. Alan Wilson: It's incredible. Anywhere else on planet Earth
they'd be excavating it. It's the Palace of the Kings. Theo Chalmers: I think there's
an aerial shot isn't there. Alan Wilson: That's Adrian Gilbert there taking a photograph.
One of the rooms is 50 feet long and so wide. They tried to say it was destroyed in 293
AD when the Emperor and King Carawn-Carausius was killed. Now radiocarbon dating shows it's
the end of the Arthurian Kingdom in 652. AD. There you can see it there, the ancient palace.
Bits of marble all over the place. We've got a piece the size of one of those books. Apparently
the bit they excavated there was mosaics on the floors and murals on the walls. Theo Chalmers:
and it's not Roman. Alan Wilson: No it's the British kings. There's also the buried city
of King Caradoc. That is in a field right on target. You can see the lines of the streets
if you go there. They've persuaded to the owner not to excavate. A buried city! If they
found one in Egypt they'd be going bananas. Wouldn't they? Theo Chalmers: It does beggar
belief I've got to say. You've presented a huge amount of data and I think it's just
absolutely vital that some people should take notice of it. Alan Wilson: The government
has to step in. You see they're protecting institutional reputations. The university
went digging up Somerset instead of North Cardiff and oh my God you know. Theo Chalmers:
Mandy's texted back and asked where is the Palace of the Kings? I think you've said haven't
you? Llantwit Major. Alan Wilson: It's just north of Llantwit Major. You go along the
main road if you're coming from the west and there's a little side road that ducks under
the railway track. Get Google Earth and you'll find it. What you could do is read out the
Google Earth references maybe on another program. If they e-mail me I'll give them the references.
So we've got a buried city, St. Peter's Church the burial place of Arthur II and nobodies
doing anything about it. Anywhere else on planet Earth they'd be digging it up; and
a buried Palace of the Kings. Theo Chalmers: We're going to put something on the website
on the forum how to contact Alan so if you are interested in doing that you will be able
to do that through the forum. So Alan we've talked about a huge mind blowing selection
of archaeological and investigatory facts that you've unearthed. One of the things we
haven't touched upon that much is Ancient Egypt and the writings there. Do you want
to quickly, you've got seven minutes left. Alan Wilson: The reason people went out with
interest to Egypt originally was to try and find evidence of Moses and Jacob and Joseph
and that sort of thing. That was the real interest. They were biblical hunters. They
didn't find anything, they couldn't. The reason they haven't found it is the Velikovsky affair
raising its head again. Velikovsky said there are duplications in Ancient Egyptian history.
The duplications are causing the history to be stretched. Theo Chalmers: There's hundreds
of years of blank in Egyptian history isn't there? Alan Wilson: Yes. Well in other histories
certainly. This then, by relating every event like a treaty or a war or whatever or intermarriage
of Royal Families with other countries; all the other histories are in disarray because
they think the history of Egypt is correct and it's dislocating everybody else. Five
archaeologists, professionals, wrote a book 'Centuries of Darkness' Peter James the lead.
Brilliant book, should have been applauded Professor Lord Colin Renfrew wrote the preface
and they say every country one after the other around the Med are in disarray. 500 years
of Greek history are missing. Trojan War ends and nothing happens for 500 years, Rip Van
Winkle blows the horn and they all wake up and start living. It's crazy. The same in
Turkey and the same elsewhere and they say the core of the problem is Egypt. You can't
find Moses because the evidence is being dated to 2,400 BC. Theo Chalmers: and he wasn't
that long ago? Is that what you're saying? Alan Wilson: Yes and they can't find Mary
and Joseph and Jacob because they're dating him from 1,600 BC to about 2,500 BC. They
can't find the Queen of Sheba, same problem and what they're doing is this, they get a
carbon dating, let's say they get a carbon date for Ramses II and it's 2,600 years. 2,000
years of our era, 600 BC. Oh my God. He's got to be 1,200. They divide by 80 and multiply
by 100 -- bingo 1,250 BC. Theo Chalmers: You mean they ignore the carbon dating? Alan Wilson:
They apply formula and they calibrate. So when they look for Nitocris...you see what
we did we looked for the names of people, now in eight ancient writings, the Kebra Nagast,
the Koran. The Queen of Sheba you look for Nitocris, we looked for Nitocris. They are
misdating her by about 500/450 years but if you apply the formula to her date that you
get, the carbon date, they divide by 80 and multiply by 100 and they get there just about
right -- they're cheating. Theo Chalmers: So you're saying the carbon dating is right
but the academics won't accept it because they go oh they must be wrong? Alan Wilson:
Why don't they multiply by 50 and divide by 200? Why don't they multiply by 40 and divide
by 37? Why do it? They're cheating If they were in any business they'd be in jail looking
through bars for cooking the books and they're doing it, doing it and doing it and they've
always done it. Theo Chalmers: So we've got four minutes nearly left. So Alan in that
four minutes you have decided from your research that the carbon dating is correct, there's
no need to mess with it. You can telescope in on the history of Egypt so you know where
to look for the hieroglyphs that talk about Moses. Did you find Moses? Alan Wilson: Yes.
There are long texts about Moses. They're called Mwseff. It means "he of the basket".
He was a guy who was not royal but he was married to a royal princess and he has the
biggest tomb complex in Egypt. A commoner married to a princess and this is this guy
Mwseff and they're putting him at 2,400 BC. Theo Chalmers: Wasn't he buried in Egypt.
Alan Wilson: His tomb is empty. They a started building the tomb as soon as they could because
it would take years to build and they wanted it ready. Theo Chalmers: Well did they use
the tomb for somebody else? Alan Wilson: No, well they couldn't because his and his wife's
name the Egyptian princess is all over it. Theo Chalmers: Well Ramses II was famous for
cutting off everybody else's cartouche own on there wasn't he? Alan Wilson: Yes. I'll
tell you about Ramses some other time, it's more interesting than you think. But anyway,
there's a huge argument going on in academia. Professor Thomson of Copenhagen said all the
ancient patriarchs in the Bible, starting with Abraham and Moses and the whole lot of
them are all fictional characters, they're all folklore, fairy tale characters, none
of them existed because the archaeologists can't find any evidence. They're 50/50 split.
The evidence is there but they're misdating it and they're doing it deliberately. It's
comic. If it had teeth it would bite them. It is comic isn't it? Theo Chalmers: Well
we've certainly found out a challenge here tonight Alan. Alan Wilson: I got two hours
with you. Thank you very much for every second of it and we've got nine large books written
over 30 years so it's hard to cover in two hours. Theo Chalmers: and these books are
available where, on Amazon? Alan Wilson: Buy them off me or Amazon. Theo Chalmers: Buy
them off Alan on his website. I'm going to steal these ones tonight. Alan Wilson: You've
got a job. Theo Chalmers: I'll arm wrestle you for them. Alan Wilson: You'll lose. Theo
Chalmers: I'm going to read this out. Absolutely brilliant keep up the good work -- Steven
in London. So you've got thirty seconds Alan what would you like to say? Alan Wilson: I
would like the government to take note, to create the jobs and I'd like archaeologists
and academia to come on board and work with us. But I don't want any favours. We've never
looked for one. Theo Chalmers: You just want your work to be acknowledged. Alan Wilson:
I would like it to be acknowledged and I would like it to be taken advantage of because I'm
from a working class background and I want to see people in jobs. If we could create
30,000 jobs that's terrific and my colleague would feel the same. Theo Chalmers: We'll
I'd certainly pay to go and see the Arc of the Covenant and where it as buried and an
ancient British palace. Alan Wilson: If it's there the owner gets 50% of the value and
I get 50% for saying it's there. So thank you. Theo Chalmers: That's all we've got time
for. Thank you to everyone for watching our special two hour show and for those who texted
and to my very special guest Alan Wilson. If you've enjoyed this show please tell all
your friends. Next week we'll be back with another exciting show that may even change
your life. Until then remember: They're watching you, watching us, watching them. Cheerio.