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re/max our menu with you and Jonathan Mosley who is
a the button over here we Muneer jonathan is the
is a talk show host concert with the conservative commandos radio Tea Party
activist
a criminal defense attorney his website cure
socialism dot blog spot dot com Jonathan welcome to the program
I great to be here thank you for joining us I understand that you recently said
that
if Jesus we were aware of and or presumably years
are what they pop pop trance is a sane
about how trickle-down economics is not supported by facts in
and is a you know a bad thing basically that Jesus would be weeping
do I have a ride what specifically that socialism has caught in my view
depending on what you determined to be has been
has caused poverty and and and for that reason I don't think he'd be happy about
more of it why is it then that the democratic socialist countries
the world are the richest countries well I i mean i doubt
the lowest poverty rates los poverty rates in the world denmark norway has
Sweden Finland Germany France lost poverty rates the world in the
democratic socialist countries
well i i don't think that thing United States at the factory
run ourselves and we have one of the worst poverty rates in the world since
reaganomics we were pretty good before
before 1980 we we were in the top five or six but
were now I think about it 34 countries are 34 economic boom in American history
and and and doubled our tax revenue
but the but there but I mean the thing is is that this is why outbreak in
double taxes on working people
so it I'ma no I don't think he did I actually did you go back and look at the
at that at the you in 1982 actually he doubled literally doubled
taxes on anybody who made at that time under seventy thousand dollars a year
I ET get cut taxes on everybody not
but but that well okay but the thing is is that I'm
socialism requires force it requires government violence to make people
I'm conform whereas capitalism is I interpret it
is me freedom and individual free well which is what Christianity depends upon
okay so you start out um yeah I'd love to get into those definitions and
perhaps we'll have
hopefully we'll have time you start out with this quote from Luke a chapter 12
someone in the crowd said to Jesus teacher tell my brother divide the
family inheritance with me
and he said to him man who appointed me a judge or arbitrator over you
and then you say in just one verse we see the guide rejects the left wing
Jesus Christ support socialism heresy I'm guessing
that you didn't read all a bloop chapter 12 because five lines later
arm God is speaking to this guy and says
but God said unto them that our full best this
night by soul shall be required to the then
whose shallows things be which now have you provided
so it is with those who lay up treasures for themselves
such people are not rich toward God the
yes because Jesus spoke to the individual
his responsibility to to do how to live with his own life
right but he didn't say take it from one person to give it to another
and that's what I define socialism as
I should should a person a beware of up the lure of wealth and and be generous
to this absolutely have chris is coming up sure people
to give to the poor but but Jesus didn't go grab the person and have is people
you know poll your pic is pocket but he was night and know it but he was not
he no actually it now is he not a capitalist
but he said get it remember when the rich guy came to him and said Matthew II
can't just toward chapter and verse anymore I used to be able to actually
Tom you know where the rich guy comes home and says how do I get to have your
nieces Excel everything you own a given to the poor
and then join me I mean it here areas same to a capitalist stop being a
capitalist
and you gonna happen you tell me johnnie trying to %uh mitch is a capitalist
you have in Jesus dude is a carpenter he ran a small business Peter
Nargis was a creature well maybe were you know when he was young but
you know what we know of his life there's there's no reference to that the
Bible
the the Bible refers to him as a as basically a rabbi
he was a wandering Minister but he was a carpenter he ran his own business he was
at Union murmuring
where in the bible does say that which is kinda high and in terms of
the building where where in the bible does it say that
II that go look it up but I don't the thing is
that on I don't I just don't recall any reference to Jesus running his own
business you know by nails hiring people firing people
do you know having a bank account dust storing up cash for
for a rainy day I just don't I yeah I don't see it there what I see is Jesus
sayin
to rich people you guys are screwed you know hier camel will go through the eye
of a needle easier than you're going to get to heaven
but he did say that but where do you get from that a government involvement
had how does that relate to the government to Jesus talk about
government Obama you know the the guy came to him with a quien such a PI taxes
and then Jesus said who's
whose picture is on then there's a Julius Caesar and Geng said
you know begin render unto Caesar what is Caesar's around a guy what has gotten
other words
pay your taxes so he I E R I think if you wanna make an argument that's the
only reference that I recall the entire Bible and read a four times
from Genesis to Revelation and and used to preach it
this the only time I recall Jesus referring
specifically to taxes and government in the first person with one single
individual
and basically what he was saying was pay your taxes so I would say he was being
supportive up socialism
because the romans at that time were actually supporting poor people
well he was saying don't break the law the got those taxes were also paid know
this guy was asking about the law this guy was asking about paying taxes
yeah which with the law but they also use that money to invade other countries
*** and kill people and and destroy
whole country and Jesus okay your taxes now he did he did
you can you know if you wanna take Elaine Pagels interpretation that many
good good Christian scholars jesus did argue that people should break the law
you know where there were Roman laws that said that you know people wipe
their butts with their left hand in selecting was considered unclean
so you could you could hit a person the face the right-hand legally
but you could not legally hit them with your left hand it was against the law
answer jesus said somebody strikes you on the left cheek turn
the right cheek to them in other words if they hit you with the right hand then
basically forced them to he was elected force them to break the law
they can lose the Roman citizenship over that same thing with the walk the Second
Mile
they were anti exploitation laws that said that that Romans could
could have the that they occupied people carry things for up to one mile but more
than that was considered exploitation you could lose a Roman citizenship in go
to jail
jesus said if somebody makes a carries a me for a mile carried a Second Mile you
carry at The Second Mile
that that your put that person to jail same thing with the the token robe thing
on you know i i yeah but I have all run a time I don't wanna
do to turn this into a Bible study but I don't see any
I don't see how you can see say that Jesus was not
inning other than the original socialist but the thing is the rejected the rich
and ruler
didn't sell all he owned and nobody you know he didn't
sick is is banned on to beat him up and still steal it
he told him to tell everything you own he didn't do it
and I have just walked away right into force people to comply he said he said
every individual what they ought to do
but he didn't advocate one person forcing so year
your conception of freedom is where there is absolutely no forced to this is
a total libertarian argument
you're suggesting then that we should not have public roads
because somebody has to pay for that which is going to require force
that we should not a public schools that we should not have public libraries that
we should not have
you know pretty much anything you want us to just go back to the jungle
no I wouldn't take it to that total version you have the news somebody
ripping off somebody else's
picture telling a Walmart that should be illegal that that
that stealing that that fraud I i think that they have to be law so that
people are making voluntary choices when they purchase think then you're a
socialist
no I don't think that laws I requiring honesty
are the same thing and I'm talking about public infrastructure how do we get
public infrastructure without taxes taxes require
you know guys with guns coming getting money from you how do you do that they
are are you saying that there should be no taxes and therefore there should be
no public infrastructure
no I don't think the charity comes by taking it from one per you think there
should be
any public infrastructure whatsoever should we have public roads
yeah okay then your socialist by your own definition data
that's an expenditure government it's not stealing from one person to get
another
and out the how is it not I don't own a car I don't use the roads
I use the metro system here in washington DC I pay every time I use it
and yet my tax dollars are going to pay for the roads I
if you take a taxi to the airport my road but that that while the elderly are
building a subway out there actually right now
by John have been mostly I hope to consume
to continue this conversation with you some other time it its
been a great conversation eyes website cure socialism doubt blog spot dot com
John
thanks for dropping by American Thank You merry Christmas to you too this is
the Thom Hartmann program
and and happy holidays everybody else
heavy fines being a monster every will be