Tip:
Highlight text to annotate it
X
RACHEL MADDOW: Tomorrow is election day, again. Tomorrow is Maine, which is state number nine,
the 9th state to go through a decision making process toward picking a nominee for President.
After Iowa and New Hampshire, South Carolina, Florida, Nevada, Missouri and Colorado, we
might have to change it again when they vote and count, Rick Santorum has won four states,
Mitt Romney has won three, Newt Gingrich won one state.
Now we are down to four, but one of them has not won in at least one state. The only one
of these guys who hasn't won is Ron Paul.
He seems the happiest in his "i just lost another primary or caucus" speech. He's happy
and he has something up his sleeve.
RON PAUL: We have to remember the straw vote is one thing then there is one thing called
delegates, yeah!
I honestly congratulate him, he ran a good campaign. I said I would see him soon in the
caucus states.
When the dust settles, I think there is a very good chance we're going do have the maximum
number of delegates coming out of Minnesota.
We will be going to the caucus states and we will be promoting the whole idea of getting
more delegates because that's the name of the game. And we will pursue it.
There is other good news, too, ongoing caucus over on the east coast, a state called Maine.
MADDOW: Even though Ron Paul has not won anything yet, he seeps very happy and excited about
his prospects, at least in the states that hold caucuses instead of primaries.
Here is the thing though, we had four states with caucuses and Ron Paul hasn't won any
of them.
So the caucus state thing may be his strategy but doesn't seem to be working. Or is it?
After the Colorado and Minnesota caucuses this week, Dave Weigel, our previous guest,
said he may well win in Minnesota and do far better in Colorado than yesterday's polls
indicate.
This was after the Minnesota results. This is what we all think the results were from
Minnesota and Colorado.
But according to the Ron Paul campaign, after those states closed, they think they might
win in Minnesota, in Colorado and in Nevada,
"We will have good numbers among the actual delegates awarded far exceeding our straw
poll numbers", the campaign says,
"in Minnesota, where we finished a solid second, it's true that Ron Paul beat Mitt Romney",
the campaign says,
"in Minnesota where we have finish a solid second we have a strong majority of the state
convention delegates". The Ron Paul campaign is well organized to win the bulk of delegates
there.
They are saying they will win in Minnesota even though they came in second there. The
Ron Paul campaign is saying even though they came in second they could win.
Again, "We may well win in Minnesota and do far better in Colorado than yesterday's polls
indicate".
I want to explain what I think is going on here.
I sort of need a prop. I don't have a prop. Let's say these are the people at the caucus,
the people at the caucus love Rick Santorum, "we love Rick Santorum".
After the caucus meets, and they vote on who they support, the people running the caucus,
the local republican officials say "okay, people, you've expressed your views, you love
Rick Santorum, you can leave now if you want but we'll stick around and do party business.
you can stay or go it's up to you".
"Yay, we voted for Rick Santorum, we love him, we'll launder our sweater vests".
After the people leave, what happens in the party business part of the meeting, is that
the delegates get chosen to go to the state convention.
The convention is where they are going to assign delegates to go to the national convention
where the nominee is chosen.
But once the so-called Santorum voters leave from the caucus, the Ron Paul supporters stay
for the party business where the delegates are chosen. vying to be chosen as the delegates.
Supposedly need 1144 delegates to get the nomination.
In theory the people who are chosen to be delegates to the convention are supposed to
go to the convention and say "all the people at my caucus love Rick Santorum, I'm a Rick
Santorum delegate", whatever the person view is in theory, we think of that delegate as
reflecting the expressed view of the people at the caucus.
What if the delegate says "I don't care what all those crazy people thought, I'm a delegate
for Ron Paul".
That is the Ron Paul strategy as best I can make it out.
Outstay the other supporters at the caucuses in the hopes of becoming a delegate. regardless
of what the caucus decided.
That is why they're saying "we may very well win in Minnesota. even though Rick Santorum
won Minnesota".
They are breaking the connection between who people expressed a preference for at the caucus
and how that will is expressed in the picking of the nominee.
It doesn't matter who you voted for, your vote counts for Ron Paul.
This is what the Ron Paul campaign says they are doing.
It's not a secret. Look in the press release. giving examples. in one precinct, the straw
poll vote was 23 Santorum, 13 for Paul, 5 for Romney, 2 for Gingrich.
13 delegate slots from that precinct in Larimer county, and Ron Paul got all 13.
They are explaining that they are doing this. Is this legal? Apparently this is legal at
least it seems to be under Republican party rules.
The delegates are supposed to reflect the view of the caucus or the precinct they came
from but nobody says they have to, and that weakness is why Ron Paul, I think, looks excited
every night when he apparently is losing these states but he doesn't think he is.
Here to explain further is Doug Wead, senior advisor to the Ron Paul campaign.
We're grateful he has chosen to talk with us. Mr. Wead, thank you for being here.
WEAD: You're welcome. I'm glad you were born, too, so i wouldn't have to sit and talk to
myself.
MADDOW: In explaining this process, I'm absolutely sure I got something wrong, because it is
a complicated process. Is there anything about the logistics I messed up?
WEAD: You did a great job and you restored my faith in journalism. I watch television
and I see them saying Romney has this many delegates and Santorum this many, and as you
know, not a single delegate has been awarded from Iowa or Minnesota or Missouri or Colorado
or Nevada, and as you point out, we're tracking this at the precinct level.
We think we have the majority of them, we think we've won in Iowa, we won in Minnesota,
we won in Colorado, and Missouri is yet to be seen.
And we think we probably won in Nevada, because we're counting the precinct votes.
The only thing that I might add there is nothing wrong or deceptive about this, anybody can
stay.
*** Allen says 80% of success is showing up. Our people show up. and they have a right
to do that, and they are committed, and so they are running as delegates at the precinct
level to the county convention where they will again run as delegates from the county
convention to the state convention.
MADDOW: Are they being open at the precinct level, are they being open about the fact
they will support Ron Paul no matter what happened at the caucus or is this sort of
a sneak attack strategy?
WEAD: No, they are open. Anybody can stay, and anybody can vote. In fact, the party is
resisting this as often as they can. There have been occasions where they dismissed the
meeting and relocate in another place to try to keep our people from participating.
There are verbal memos that come down from the campaign in Minnesota there was a verbal
memo, they don't care to put it in print in which they told all the establishment republicans
"don't vote for any delegate under the age of 40", because they knew it would be a Ron
Paul supporter.
so we're winning fair and square. and I should point out all these rules were changed for
Mitt Romney.
They were changed so that the establishment republicans could give Mitt Romney a chance
to win this nomination, in spite of evangelical resistance in the south.
So it's all been set up for Romney, we're the poor guys, we don't have Goldman Sachs
money, we're playing by their rules and yes, we have a smile on our face because right
now the big story missed until you just broke it tonight is probably we have more delegates
than anybody in the race right now when all this is finalized ----
MADDOW: Sorry to interrupt, when you say the republican party changed the rules in a way
to game the system for Mitt Romney, what rules do you think they changed to Mitt Romney's
benefit?
WEAD: of course Florida was moved up because it was a state that would help him, Nevada
and Arizona were moved up because they were states with large LDS (Latter Day Saints)
populations.
It was proportional in the south, so that if Romney pulls 20, 30% in the south, but
because of his faith, a lot of evangelicals go to Gingrich or Santorum or would have gone
to another candidate, Romney still would get something.
He wouldn't be shutout. In a winner take all, if he's shutout in the south, he can't get
the nomination because remember, the south is loaded for the GOP, because it often votes
in the presidential election for GOP so it's not just population in the south, it's based
how their voting patterns have been.
There is a lot of delegates in the south. So in that sense, it was gamed and even the
primary the system, the caucuses were gamed for him because it was felt he had the money
and with the money he could have the organization.
We don't have the money, but we've got the organization.
MADDOW: I'm assuming that your overall goal is to make Ron Paul the nominee for President.
I realize that is what you are -- you are in it for. Say you don't achieve that but
you have amassed a large number of delegates, what would be the purpose of amassing all
those delegates, what would you use it for?
WEAD: As you know, anybody who is an observer of modern political history knows a brokered
convention is remote. There are delegates that will move to another candidate if they
get a box of godiva chocolates on their pillow at the hotel in Tampa that night.
Ron Paul delegates won't go even if they are offered Secretary of State. So if we can get
do a convention with a sizeable number of delegates and if Gingrich stays alive and
Santorum stays alive, we could have a brokered convention.
It would be a huge show, even though there is a remote possibility.
And of course there are many things we want. We would like to see the Federal Reserve audited
for example, and Romney is the only candidate left in the republican party who hasn't taken
that step. And with good reason, his money is coming from Goldman Sachs.
MADDOW: Doug Wead, we have the hardest time in the world trying to get anybody from any
of the campaigns to talk to us so I am very grateful you were here.
I hope you come back. This is a huge story and you helped us explain it and I would love
to have you back on the show if you would come back.
WEAD: I thank you for breaking the story. Up until now, finding delegates for Mitt Romney,
he says he's got them but it's kind of like the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq,
everybody thinks they are there, nobody can name one of these delegates that he has won
except the winner take all in Florida and the two primaries,
but in the caucus state you can't find them because they are not there yet.
MADDOW: Doug Wead, thank you again, sir. Appreciate your time.
>>> thank you.