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WITH DON CARREL, AUTHOR OF "MY DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS".
DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS". >>EVEN LIVING WITH AIDS SINCE
>>EVEN LIVING WITH AIDS SINCE 1981.
1981. >>H.I.V. SINCE '81 IS WHEN I WAS
>>H.I.V. SINCE '81 IS WHEN I WAS INFECTED, 31 YEARS.
INFECTED, 31 YEARS. >>MARRIED, KAREN.
>>MARRIED, KAREN. >>RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE.
>>RIGHT OUT OF COLLEGE. >>UH-HUH.
>>UH-HUH. TWO CHILDREN.
TWO CHILDREN. >>CORRECT.
>>CORRECT. >>THEY WERE VERY YOUNG WHEN YOU
>>THEY WERE VERY YOUNG WHEN YOU DECIDED THIS WAS NOT THE WAY
DECIDED THIS WAS NOT THE WAY THINGS REALLY WERE.
THINGS REALLY WERE. >>CORRECT.
>>CORRECT. THEY WERE ONE AND FOUR WHEN I
THEY WERE ONE AND FOUR WHEN I GOT IT.
GOT IT. >>WHEN WAS IT LIKE AT THAT POINT
>>WHEN WAS IT LIKE AT THAT POINT TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITH YOUR
TO ADDRESS THAT ISSUE WITH YOUR SPOUSE?
SPOUSE? DO YOU REMEMBER THE EVENT?
DO YOU REMEMBER THE EVENT? >> AS FAR AS MY SEXUALITY, I DO
>> AS FAR AS MY SEXUALITY, I DO REMEMBER, AND I CAME HOME ONE
REMEMBER, AND I CAME HOME ONE NIGHT BEFORE DINNER, AND I
NIGHT BEFORE DINNER, AND I BASICALLY I HAD BEEN KIND OF
BASICALLY I HAD BEEN KIND OF EMOTIONALLY STRUGGLING WITH IT
EMOTIONALLY STRUGGLING WITH IT FOR THREE OR FOUR MONTHS, AND
FOR THREE OR FOUR MONTHS, AND SHE KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG,
SHE KNEW SOMETHING WAS WRONG, AND I BASICALLY TOLD HER THAT I
AND I BASICALLY TOLD HER THAT I THOUGHT I WAS GAY, AND HER
THOUGHT I WAS GAY, AND HER RESPONSE TO ME WAS "IS THAT THE
RESPONSE TO ME WAS "IS THAT THE ONLY THING THAT IS WRONG WITH
ONLY THING THAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?
YOU? WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE FOR
WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE FOR DINNER?"
DINNER?" >>AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED.
>>AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED. >>WE ENDED UP GETTING DIVORCED,
>>WE ENDED UP GETTING DIVORCED, PROBABLY MORE BECAUSE I THOUGHT
PROBABLY MORE BECAUSE I THOUGHT IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR US TO
IT WAS THE BEST THING FOR US TO DO TO MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES
DO TO MOVE ON WITH OUR LIVES THAN SHE DID.
THAN SHE DID. SHE WAS RAISED CATHOLIC.
SHE WAS RAISED CATHOLIC. AT THAT POINT AND TIME, WE WERE
AT THAT POINT AND TIME, WE WERE IN OUR LATE 20'S.
IN OUR LATE 20'S. I WAS IN THE INSURANCE BUSINESS.
I WAS IN THE INSURANCE BUSINESS. I HAD A SIX FIGURE INCOME.
I HAD A SIX FIGURE INCOME. I HAD BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND
I HAD BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL, AND THIS WAS BACK IN THE 1970'S.
THIS WAS BACK IN THE 1970'S. AND FOR A 20 YEAR OLD TO HAVE A
AND FOR A 20 YEAR OLD TO HAVE A SIX FIGURE INCOME WAS PRETTY
SIX FIGURE INCOME WAS PRETTY IMPRESSIVE.
IMPRESSIVE. WE HAD TWO KIDS.
WE HAD TWO KIDS. WE HAD A VERY NICE HOME.
WE HAD A VERY NICE HOME. WE OWNED SOME INVESTMENT
WE OWNED SOME INVESTMENT PROPERTY.
PROPERTY. WE NEVER HAD AN ARGUMENT.
WE NEVER HAD AN ARGUMENT. SHE WAS MY BEST FRIEND.
SHE WAS MY BEST FRIEND. SO IT MADE IT ESPECIALLY
SO IT MADE IT ESPECIALLY DIFFICULT.
DIFFICULT. I MEAN OFTENTIMES PEOPLE GET
I MEAN OFTENTIMES PEOPLE GET DIVORCED BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT
DIVORCED BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT GETTING ALONG.
GETTING ALONG. THAT WAS NOT THE CASE WITH US.
THAT WAS NOT THE CASE WITH US. >> THIS TIPPING POINT, WHEN YOU
>> THIS TIPPING POINT, WHEN YOU INTO YOU INTO YOU THAT YOUR
INTO YOU INTO YOU THAT YOUR SEXUALITY WAS AN ISSUE, THAT YOU
SEXUALITY WAS AN ISSUE, THAT YOU KNEW YOU WERE GAY, WHEN DID THAT
KNEW YOU WERE GAY, WHEN DID THAT OCCUR?
OCCUR? >> SHORTLY AFTER MY SECOND SON
>> SHORTLY AFTER MY SECOND SON WAS CONCEIVED.
WAS CONCEIVED. >>EARLY ON YOUR ADOLESCENCE?
>>EARLY ON YOUR ADOLESCENCE? >> I KNOW NOW, ONCE I PUT ALL
>> I KNOW NOW, ONCE I PUT ALL THE PIECES TOGETHER THAT I HAVE
THE PIECES TOGETHER THAT I HAVE BEEN GAY SINCE PROBABLY THE
BEEN GAY SINCE PROBABLY THE MINUTE I WAS CONCEIVED.
MINUTE I WAS CONCEIVED. I MEAN I CAN THINK BACK TO
I MEAN I CAN THINK BACK TO REALLY YOUNG CHILDHOOD MEMORIES
REALLY YOUNG CHILDHOOD MEMORIES AND PIN POINT THAT THAT MIGHT
AND PIN POINT THAT THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN WHAT IS GOING ON.
HAVE BEEN WHAT IS GOING ON. BUT I GREW UP AT A POINT AND
BUT I GREW UP AT A POINT AND TIME WHERE THERE WEREN'T GAY
TIME WHERE THERE WEREN'T GAY CHARACTERS ON TV.
CHARACTERS ON TV. I WAS LITERALLY TAUGHT ANYONE --
I WAS LITERALLY TAUGHT ANYONE -- IF YOU ARE A GAY MALE, YOU WEAR
IF YOU ARE A GAY MALE, YOU WEAR DRESSES AND MAKE UP, AND YOU
DRESSES AND MAKE UP, AND YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN A
DON'T HAVE ANY INTEREST IN A FAMILY.
FAMILY. YOU ARE JUST SEXUALLY -- YOU
YOU ARE JUST SEXUALLY -- YOU KNOW, YOU ARE A PERVERTED ***
KNOW, YOU ARE A PERVERTED *** BEING.
BEING. I HAD A STRONG DESIRE TO HAVE A
I HAD A STRONG DESIRE TO HAVE A FAMILY AND KIDS AND LONG-TERM
FAMILY AND KIDS AND LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. SO THE SEXUALITY PIECE THAT I
SO THE SEXUALITY PIECE THAT I HAD LEARNED DIDN'T FIT IN WITH
HAD LEARNED DIDN'T FIT IN WITH WOULD WHAT MY GOALS IN LIFE
WOULD WHAT MY GOALS IN LIFE WERE.
WERE. >>WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT
>>WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL ABOUT BEING GAY?
BEING GAY? I DON'T SEE IT.
I DON'T SEE IT. >>WELL, YOU THINK FOR SOMEONE
>>WELL, YOU THINK FOR SOMEONE THAT IS GAY AND OUT AND
THAT IS GAY AND OUT AND COMFORTABLE WITH IT, IT ISN'T A
COMFORTABLE WITH IT, IT ISN'T A BIG DEAL.
BIG DEAL. IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS
IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS GA NET CALLY WHO YOU ARE.
GA NET CALLY WHO YOU ARE. >>THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING.
>>THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING. >>BUT YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF
>>BUT YOU STILL HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT THINK SOMEHOW PEOPLE
PEOPLE THAT THINK SOMEHOW PEOPLE THAT ARE GAY CHOOSE THAT
THAT ARE GAY CHOOSE THAT LIFESTYLE.
LIFESTYLE. ANYONE THAT WAS GAY THINKS IT IS
ANYONE THAT WAS GAY THINKS IT IS A CHOICE, I FOUGHT AGAINST BEING
A CHOICE, I FOUGHT AGAINST BEING GAY FOR YEARS, CONSCIOUSLY AND
GAY FOR YEARS, CONSCIOUSLY AND SUBCONSCIOUSLY I DIDN'T WANT TO
SUBCONSCIOUSLY I DIDN'T WANT TO FIT INTO WHERE MY NATURAL
FIT INTO WHERE MY NATURAL CHARACTERISTICS WERE.
CHARACTERISTICS WERE. AND IT IS NOT JUST -- IT IS NOT
AND IT IS NOT JUST -- IT IS NOT JUST THE *** THING.
JUST THE *** THING. WHEN I -- SHIRTILY AFTER I GAME
WHEN I -- SHIRTILY AFTER I GAME CAME OUT TO MY AMERICA SHE MADE
CAME OUT TO MY AMERICA SHE MADE A COMMENT ABOUT NOT
A COMMENT ABOUT NOT UNDERSTANDING SEX BETWEEN TWO
UNDERSTANDING SEX BETWEEN TWO MEN.
MEN. AND MY RESPONSE WAS BEING GAY
AND MY RESPONSE WAS BEING GAY DOESN'T HAVE AS MUCH TO DO WITH
DOESN'T HAVE AS MUCH TO DO WITH SEX AS IT HAS TO BE WITH WHO YOU
SEX AS IT HAS TO BE WITH WHO YOU WOULD LIKE TO GO TO THE GROCERY
WOULD LIKE TO GO TO THE GROCERY STORE WITH.
STORE WITH. YOU CAN TALK TO ANYONE THAT HAS
YOU CAN TALK TO ANYONE THAT HAS BEEN MARRIED THAT HETEROSEXUAL,
BEEN MARRIED THAT HETEROSEXUAL, AND THEY SAY IF THEY ARE MARRIED
AND THEY SAY IF THEY ARE MARRIED AND IN A RELATIONSHIP FOR YEARS,
AND IN A RELATIONSHIP FOR YEARS, IT IS NOT THE SEX LIFE THAT
IT IS NOT THE SEX LIFE THAT BINDS THEM TOGETHER.
BINDS THEM TOGETHER. IT IS THEIR FRIENDSHIP AND THEIR
IT IS THEIR FRIENDSHIP AND THEIR COMMUNICATION AND THEIR
COMMUNICATION AND THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH EACH OTHER.
RELATIONSHIP WITH EACH OTHER. >> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH THAT?
>> HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH THAT? HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH THIS
HOW DO YOU LIVE WITH THIS CONSTANT SENSE OF BEING THE
CONSTANT SENSE OF BEING THE SUBJECT OF DISCRIMINATION?
SUBJECT OF DISCRIMINATION? >> IN MY CASE, I DON'T KNOW IT
>> IN MY CASE, I DON'T KNOW IT HAS BEEN THAT DIFFICULT BECAUSE
HAS BEEN THAT DIFFICULT BECAUSE ONCE I CAME TO GRIPS PERSONALLY
ONCE I CAME TO GRIPS PERSONALLY THAT I WAS GAY, I HAVE BEEN VERY
THAT I WAS GAY, I HAVE BEEN VERY OPEN ABOUT IT, AND I CAN'T
OPEN ABOUT IT, AND I CAN'T HONESTLY THINK I HAVE BEEN
HONESTLY THINK I HAVE BEEN DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE OF
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BECAUSE OF IT.
IT. HOWEVER, I HAVE OWNED MY OWN
HOWEVER, I HAVE OWNED MY OWN BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. I HAVEN'T HAD AN EMPLOYEE THAT I
I HAVEN'T HAD AN EMPLOYEE THAT I HAVE HAD TO ANSWER TO, AND I
HAVE HAD TO ANSWER TO, AND I JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT TO BE AN
JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT TO BE AN ISSUE.
ISSUE. SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF
SO I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE GAY AND LESBIAN
PEOPLE THAT ARE GAY AND LESBIAN ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S SOCIETY
ESPECIALLY IN TODAY'S SOCIETY THAT DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL
THAT DON'T NECESSARILY FEEL DISCRIMINATED AGAINST MOST OF
DISCRIMINATED AGAINST MOST OF THE TIME.
THE TIME. OCCASIONALLY, YOU WILL HEAR
OCCASIONALLY, YOU WILL HEAR SOMEONE MAKE DEROGATORY
SOMEONE MAKE DEROGATORY COMMENTS, BUT YOU HEAR THAT
COMMENTS, BUT YOU HEAR THAT ABOUT THE WAY PEOPLE DRESS.
ABOUT THE WAY PEOPLE DRESS. YOU HEAR THAT ABOUT THEIR RACE.
YOU HEAR THAT ABOUT THEIR RACE. YOU HEAR THAT ABOUT A LOT OF
YOU HEAR THAT ABOUT A LOT OF SUBJECTS.
SUBJECTS. AND THAT'S NEVER BEEN A HUGE
AND THAT'S NEVER BEEN A HUGE ISSUE FOR ME.
ISSUE FOR ME. >>THERE ARE ALSO A THE LOT OF --
>>THERE ARE ALSO A THE LOT OF -- I WORKED ON MASTER HE IS IN
I WORKED ON MASTER HE IS IN SOCIAL WORK.
SOCIAL WORK. THERE IS A LOT OF STUDIES THAT
THERE IS A LOT OF STUDIES THAT SHOW THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE
SHOW THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE MOST -- I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT
MOST -- I DON'T KNOW IF I WANT TO USE THE WORD "VIOLENTLY",
TO USE THE WORD "VIOLENTLY", ANTI GAY, BUT THE MOST LIKELY TO
ANTI GAY, BUT THE MOST LIKELY TO BULLY SOMEBODY ABOUT IT AND DO
BULLY SOMEBODY ABOUT IT AND DO SO PUBLICLY R OFTENTIMES THE
SO PUBLICLY R OFTENTIMES THE SAME PEOPLE NA R FIGHTING
SAME PEOPLE NA R FIGHTING AGAINST INSECURITY ABOUT THEIR
AGAINST INSECURITY ABOUT THEIR OWN *** ORIENTATION.
OWN *** ORIENTATION. SO THEY PUT ON THIS FAKE FRONT
SO THEY PUT ON THIS FAKE FRONT THAT THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE
THAT THIS IS INAPPROPRIATE SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING
SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO SOMEHOW PROTECT THEIR OWN
TO SOMEHOW PROTECT THEIR OWN IMAGE.
IMAGE. I MEAN I HAVE FOR MANY YEARS I
I MEAN I HAVE FOR MANY YEARS I HAVE HAD STRAIGHT MALE FRIENDS
HAVE HAD STRAIGHT MALE FRIENDS THAT ARE VERY GOOD FRIENDS, AND
THAT ARE VERY GOOD FRIENDS, AND THE ONES THAT ARE VERY SECURE
THE ONES THAT ARE VERY SECURE ABOUT THEIR SEXUALITY SEEM TO
ABOUT THEIR SEXUALITY SEEM TO HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DIFFICULTY
HAVE NEVER HAD ANY DIFFICULTY DEALING WITH THE FACT THAT I AM
DEALING WITH THE FACT THAT I AM GAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SECURE IN
GAY BECAUSE THEY ARE SECURE IN THEMSELVES, AND THEY DON'T LOOK
THEMSELVES, AND THEY DON'T LOOK AT THAT AS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO
AT THAT AS SOMETHING THAT HAS TO AFFECT OUR FRIENDSHIP.
AFFECT OUR FRIENDSHIP. WHAT IS THE NATURE OF
WHAT IS THE NATURE OF RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR PRIOR
RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR PRIOR SPOUSE NOW?
SPOUSE NOW? >> WE HAVE BEEN DIVORCED FOR 33
>> WE HAVE BEEN DIVORCED FOR 33 YEARS, AND SHE HAD MY PARTNER
YEARS, AND SHE HAD MY PARTNER AND I AT HER HOUSE FOR CHRISTMAS
AND I AT HER HOUSE FOR CHRISTMAS DINNER A COUPLE YEARS AGO.
DINNER A COUPLE YEARS AGO. IF I AM IN THE TOWN SHE IS IN,
IF I AM IN THE TOWN SHE IS IN, IF I NEED TO, I CAN SPEND THE
IF I NEED TO, I CAN SPEND THE NIGHT AT HER HOUSE.
NIGHT AT HER HOUSE. SHE LIVES IN INDIANAPOLIS WHERE
SHE LIVES IN INDIANAPOLIS WHERE MY SONS HAPPEN TO LIVE, AND I
MY SONS HAPPEN TO LIVE, AND I LIVE IN KANSAS CITY.
LIVE IN KANSAS CITY. WHEN I GO THERE, SHE LOANS ME
WHEN I GO THERE, SHE LOANS ME ONE OF HER CARS.
ONE OF HER CARS. WE HAVE A VERY GOOD
WE HAVE A VERY GOOD RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. >>YOU HAVE RELATIONS WITH YOUR
>>YOU HAVE RELATIONS WITH YOUR TWO CHILDREN.
TWO CHILDREN. >>YES.
>>YES. >>GOOD RELATIONSHIP?
>>GOOD RELATIONSHIP? >> UH-HUH.
>> UH-HUH. AND MY OLDEST SON HAS TWO
AND MY OLDEST SON HAS TWO CHILDREN, MAX WHO IS SIX, AND
CHILDREN, MAX WHO IS SIX, AND KATIE WHO IS THREE.
KATIE WHO IS THREE. THEY CALL ME PJ.
THEY CALL ME PJ. MY OWN GRANDFATHER WHO I WAS
MY OWN GRANDFATHER WHO I WAS VERY CLOSE TO, I CALLED POPPY
VERY CLOSE TO, I CALLED POPPY WHEN I WAS A YOUNG CHILD, AND
WHEN I WAS A YOUNG CHILD, AND THEN MY GRANDPARENTS WERE NANNIE
THEN MY GRANDPARENTS WERE NANNIE AND POPPY.
AND POPPY. WHEN WE WERE OLDER, THEY WERE
WHEN WE WERE OLDER, THEY WERE NAN AND POP.
NAN AND POP. BUT I NAMED MYSELF POPPY JUNIOR
BUT I NAMED MYSELF POPPY JUNIOR OR PJ BECAUSE I THINK I AM FAR
OR PJ BECAUSE I THINK I AM FAR TOO YOUNG TO BE CALLED GRANDPA.
TOO YOUNG TO BE CALLED GRANDPA. MY PARTNER, CHRIS, WHO I HAVE
MY PARTNER, CHRIS, WHO I HAVE BEEN WITH FOR 16 YEARS, MY
BEEN WITH FOR 16 YEARS, MY GRANDCHILDREN ALL REFER TO HIM
GRANDCHILDREN ALL REFER TO HIM AS GRANDPA CHRIS.
AS GRANDPA CHRIS. SO HE IS -- I MEAN THEY HAVE
SO HE IS -- I MEAN THEY HAVE GROWN UP WITH ME HAVING A MALE
GROWN UP WITH ME HAVING A MALE PARTNER AND I WOULD SAY THEY ARE
PARTNER AND I WOULD SAY THEY ARE EVERY BY THE AS CLOSE TO MY
EVERY BY THE AS CLOSE TO MY PARTNER AS THEY ARE TO ME.
PARTNER AS THEY ARE TO ME. >> YOU NOW HAVE TWO SEPARATE
>> YOU NOW HAVE TWO SEPARATE BUSINESSES, AT LEAST YOU DID
BUSINESSES, AT LEAST YOU DID HAVE TWO.
HAVE TWO. >>RIGHT.
>>RIGHT. >>DO YOU STILL HAVE BOTH -- DO
>>DO YOU STILL HAVE BOTH -- DO YOU HAVE ONE OF THEM?
YOU HAVE ONE OF THEM? >> NO, I OPENED A GOURMET GIFT
>> NO, I OPENED A GOURMET GIFT SHOP AND A RESTAURANT, AND I
SHOP AND A RESTAURANT, AND I OPENED UP WHEN I LEFT THE
OPENED UP WHEN I LEFT THE INSURANCE BUSINESS, I JUST
INSURANCE BUSINESS, I JUST HANDED IN MY KEYS AND WALKED
HANDED IN MY KEYS AND WALKED AWAY FROM MY JOB ONE DAY PARTLY
AWAY FROM MY JOB ONE DAY PARTLY BECAUSE IT WAS EMOTIONALLY
BECAUSE IT WAS EMOTIONALLY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GO IN AND
DIFFICULT FOR ME TO GO IN AND TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR
TALK TO PEOPLE ABOUT THEIR FAMILY SECURITY WHEN I FELT LIKE
FAMILY SECURITY WHEN I FELT LIKE I JUST DESTROYED MY OWN.
I JUST DESTROYED MY OWN. I ALSO HAD A DIRECT SUPERVISOR
I ALSO HAD A DIRECT SUPERVISOR WHO WAS WHO TOTED AROUND A
WHO WAS WHO TOTED AROUND A LEATHER BOUND BIBLE ALL THE
LEATHER BOUND BIBLE ALL THE TIME, AND I WAS HIS BEST FRIEND
TIME, AND I WAS HIS BEST FRIEND WHILE I WAS HIS NUMBER ONE
WHILE I WAS HIS NUMBER ONE PRODUCER.
PRODUCER. BUT AS SOON AS I CAME OUT OF THE
BUT AS SOON AS I CAME OUT OF THE CLOSET, HE COULD HARDLY TOLERATE
CLOSET, HE COULD HARDLY TOLERATE LOOKING AT ME ANY LONGER. SO I
LOOKING AT ME ANY LONGER. SO I JUST DIDN'T WANT TO WORK IN THAT
JUST DIDN'T WANT TO WORK IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.
ENVIRONMENT. I HAD A DREAM ONE NIGHT WHILE I
I HAD A DREAM ONE NIGHT WHILE I WAS TOLD "GO OPEN UP A RETAIL
WAS TOLD "GO OPEN UP A RETAIL STORE."
STORE." I OPENED UP THE STORE KIND OF
I OPENED UP THE STORE KIND OF LIKE A CRATE AND BARREL.
LIKE A CRATE AND BARREL. IT WAS SMALL, 1200 SQUARE FEET,
IT WAS SMALL, 1200 SQUARE FEET, AND A YEAR LATER, I HAD 2500
AND A YEAR LATER, I HAD 2500 SQUARE FEET, A AND A YEAR LATE
SQUARE FEET, A AND A YEAR LATE EX I HAD 5,000 SQUARE FEET.
EX I HAD 5,000 SQUARE FEET. TWO YEARS LATER, I MOVED INTO
TWO YEARS LATER, I MOVED INTO 12,000 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE AND
12,000 SQUARE FEET OF SPACE AND ADDED A RESTAURANT.
ADDED A RESTAURANT. SO I DID THAT, BUT I MOVED INTO
SO I DID THAT, BUT I MOVED INTO THE LARGE SPACE AND SIGNED A
THE LARGE SPACE AND SIGNED A FIVE YEAR LEASE.
FIVE YEAR LEASE. A FEW MONTHS LATER, HAD REASON
A FEW MONTHS LATER, HAD REASON TO BELIEVE I NEEDED TO GET AN
TO BELIEVE I NEEDED TO GET AN H.I.V. TEST, AND WAS TESTED AND
H.I.V. TEST, AND WAS TESTED AND FOUND OUT I WAS POSITIVE AND WAS
FOUND OUT I WAS POSITIVE AND WAS BASICALLY TOLD BY MY DOCTOR AT
BASICALLY TOLD BY MY DOCTOR AT THAT POINT AND TIME IN 1986 TO
THAT POINT AND TIME IN 1986 TO GET MY AFFAIRS IN ORDER BECAUSE
GET MY AFFAIRS IN ORDER BECAUSE I WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY BE SICK
I WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY BE SICK WITHIN 12 MONTHS AND DEAD WITHIN
WITHIN 12 MONTHS AND DEAD WITHIN TWO YEARS.
TWO YEARS. I HAD JUST SIGNED A FIVE YEAR
I HAD JUST SIGNED A FIVE YEAR LEASE.
LEASE. I WAS OPERATING A BUSINESS WITH
I WAS OPERATING A BUSINESS WITH 14 EMPLOYEES IN THE MIDDLE OF
14 EMPLOYEES IN THE MIDDLE OF KANSAS.
KANSAS. AND IN THE MID 80'S, PEOPLE
AND IN THE MID 80'S, PEOPLE THOUGHT YOU COULD CONTRACT
THOUGHT YOU COULD CONTRACT H.I.V. SIMPLY BY BEING IN THE
H.I.V. SIMPLY BY BEING IN THE SAME ROOM WITH SOMEONE THAT HAD
SAME ROOM WITH SOMEONE THAT HAD THE DISEASE.
THE DISEASE. >>OR SHAKING HANDS.
>>OR SHAKING HANDS. >>OR SHAKING HANDS OR DRINKING
>>OR SHAKING HANDS OR DRINKING OUT EVER THEIR GLASS.
OUT EVER THEIR GLASS. I KNEW IF ANYONE IN MANHATTAN
I KNEW IF ANYONE IN MANHATTAN KANSAS KNEW I HAD H.I.V., I
KANSAS KNEW I HAD H.I.V., I COULD JUST LOCK THE DOORS TO MY
COULD JUST LOCK THE DOORS TO MY BUSINESS.
BUSINESS. >>FROM THE HOSPITAL BED, WHERE
>>FROM THE HOSPITAL BED, WHERE YOU CONTRACTED PNEUMONIA, AND IT
YOU CONTRACTED PNEUMONIA, AND IT WAS KIND OF NEAR THE END OF THE
WAS KIND OF NEAR THE END OF THE LINE, BUT YOU RECOVERED?
LINE, BUT YOU RECOVERED? >> I RECOVERED.
>> I RECOVERED. >>YOU HAD THIS VISION.
>>YOU HAD THIS VISION. >>I FOUND OUT IN 1986 I HAD
>>I FOUND OUT IN 1986 I HAD H.I.V.
H.I.V. I HAD NOTHING WRONG WITH ME
I HAD NOTHING WRONG WITH ME UNTIL 1995.
UNTIL 1995. BY THEN, I HAD CLOSED MY STORES
BY THEN, I HAD CLOSED MY STORES AND MOVED BACK TO KANSAS CITY.
AND MOVED BACK TO KANSAS CITY. IN 1995, I CAME DOWN WITH
IN 1995, I CAME DOWN WITH PNEUMOCYSTIS PNEUMONIA WHICH IS
PNEUMOCYSTIS PNEUMONIA WHICH IS THE MOST COMMON FORM OF DEATH
THE MOST COMMON FORM OF DEATH FOR SOMEONE THAT HAS AIDS.
FOR SOMEONE THAT HAS AIDS. I WEIGHED 119 POUNDS.
I WEIGHED 119 POUNDS. I HAD A T-CELL COUNT OF ZERO, A
I HAD A T-CELL COUNT OF ZERO, A T-CELL COUNT IS MEASUREMENT OF
T-CELL COUNT IS MEASUREMENT OF HOW WELL YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS
HOW WELL YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM IS WORK.
WORK. I HAD NO OPERATING IMMUNE
I HAD NO OPERATING IMMUNE SYSTEM.
SYSTEM. IN THE HOSPITAL, NOT REALLY
IN THE HOSPITAL, NOT REALLY EXPECTED TO LIVE.
EXPECTED TO LIVE. ONE NIGHT IN THE HOSPITAL, I HAD
ONE NIGHT IN THE HOSPITAL, I HAD A DREAM, ALL OF A SUDDEN, I
A DREAM, ALL OF A SUDDEN, I HEARD THIS VOICE SAY "DON, I
HEARD THIS VOICE SAY "DON, I SORRY, YOU WILL NOT DIE BUSE YOU
SORRY, YOU WILL NOT DIE BUSE YOU WILL GO OUT AND TEACH HIGH
WILL GO OUT AND TEACH HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS WHAT THEY NEED
SCHOOL STUDENTS WHAT THEY NEED TO KNOW SO THEY WON'T EVER GET
TO KNOW SO THEY WON'T EVER GET H.I.V."
H.I.V." >>IN THIS BOOK, MIGHT BOOK.
>>IN THIS BOOK, MIGHT BOOK. >>"MY DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS".
>>"MY DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS". >>"MY DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS".
>>"MY DREAM TO TRAMPLE AIDS". >>IN READING IT, SEEMS LIKE
>>IN READING IT, SEEMS LIKE PARTS, MEMOIRS, INFORMATION,
PARTS, MEMOIRS, INFORMATION, EDUCATION, MULTIPLE LIFE
EDUCATION, MULTIPLE LIFE EXPERIENCES, LETTERS, AS A
EXPERIENCES, LETTERS, AS A CORNUCOPIA EXPERIENCES,
CORNUCOPIA EXPERIENCES, DIFFICULT TOPPED STAND TO READ,
DIFFICULT TOPPED STAND TO READ, LESS THAN EMOTIONAL, AND OTHERS
LESS THAN EMOTIONAL, AND OTHERS WERE AS A MATTER OF FACT.
WERE AS A MATTER OF FACT. THE PROCESS OF WRITING THIS
THE PROCESS OF WRITING THIS BOOK, WAS IT CATHARTIC?
BOOK, WAS IT CATHARTIC? IS IT FAIR TO CALL THEM DEMONS.
IS IT FAIR TO CALL THEM DEMONS. >>IT IS FAIR TO CALL THEM THAT.
>>IT IS FAIR TO CALL THEM THAT. WHEN I HAD MY DREAM, I WAS
WHEN I HAD MY DREAM, I WAS SUPPOSED TO TALK TO HIGH SCHOOL
SUPPOSED TO TALK TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS, I WAS KIND OF ANGRY
STUDENTS, I WAS KIND OF ANGRY ABOUT IT BECAUSE I WAS TERRIFIED
ABOUT IT BECAUSE I WAS TERRIFIED OF PUBLIC SPEAKING.
OF PUBLIC SPEAKING. I HAD BEEN SO SICK THAT IT
I HAD BEEN SO SICK THAT IT LITERALLY WOULD TAKE ME A COUPLE
LITERALLY WOULD TAKE ME A COUPLE OF HOURS JUST TO GET UP AND
OF HOURS JUST TO GET UP AND SHAVE AND SHOWER AND GET
SHAVE AND SHOWER AND GET DRESSED, AND I HAD NO ENERGY.
DRESSED, AND I HAD NO ENERGY. THEN I HAVE THIS -- I DON'T KNOW
THEN I HAVE THIS -- I DON'T KNOW IF YOU COULD CALL IT A VISION OR
IF YOU COULD CALL IT A VISION OR MAYBE YOU COULD, BUT IT WASN'T
MAYBE YOU COULD, BUT IT WASN'T LIKE A SUGGESTION THAT I SHOULD
LIKE A SUGGESTION THAT I SHOULD GO TALK TO PEOPLE.
GO TALK TO PEOPLE. IT WAS A DIRECTION.
IT WAS A DIRECTION. >>IT WAS A STATEMENT OF FACT.
>>IT WAS A STATEMENT OF FACT. "THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN."
"THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN." SO I STARTED TALKING TO
SO I STARTED TALKING TO STUDENTS.
STUDENTS. AFTER I TALKED FOR A COUPLE OF
AFTER I TALKED FOR A COUPLE OF YEARS, AND I DIDN'T REALLY
YEARS, AND I DIDN'T REALLY CHARGE.
CHARGE. I WENT INTO HIGH SCHOOLS, AND I
I WENT INTO HIGH SCHOOLS, AND I VOLUNTEERED TO DO IT, AND I
VOLUNTEERED TO DO IT, AND I ALWAYS ASKED FOR STUDENTS TO
ALWAYS ASKED FOR STUDENTS TO WRITE ME EVALUATION LETTERS AND
WRITE ME EVALUATION LETTERS AND SHARED STORIES THEY HAD, AND THE
SHARED STORIES THEY HAD, AND THE BOOK IS FULL OF QUOTES FROM HIGH
BOOK IS FULL OF QUOTES FROM HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT HAVE HEARD
SCHOOL STUDENTS THAT HAVE HEARD ME SPEAK.
ME SPEAK. FROM READING THOSE LETTERS AND
FROM READING THOSE LETTERS AND JUST THROUGH EXPERIENCE, I
JUST THROUGH EXPERIENCE, I BASICALLY LEARNED WHAT I NEEDED
BASICALLY LEARNED WHAT I NEEDED TO TALK ABOUT, WHAT THEIR
TO TALK ABOUT, WHAT THEIR QUESTIONS WERE.
QUESTIONS WERE. SO I PUT TOGETHER THIS LITERALLY
SO I PUT TOGETHER THIS LITERALLY PRESENTATION WHEREIN 45 MINUTES
PRESENTATION WHEREIN 45 MINUTES TO AN HOUR I COULD TEACH AVERAGE
TO AN HOUR I COULD TEACH AVERAGE PERSON EVERYTHING THEY WOULD
PERSON EVERYTHING THEY WOULD REALLY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT H.I.V.
REALLY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT H.I.V. I TALKED A COUPLE OF YEARS AND I
I TALKED A COUPLE OF YEARS AND I HAD THIS IDEA I WANTED TO WRITE
HAD THIS IDEA I WANTED TO WRITE THIS BOOK.
THIS BOOK. TO BE HONEST, AT THAT POINT IN
TO BE HONEST, AT THAT POINT IN TIMING RIGHT AFTER I GOT OUT OF
TIMING RIGHT AFTER I GOT OUT OF THE HOSPITAL IS WHEN SOME OF THE
THE HOSPITAL IS WHEN SOME OF THE NEW H.I.V. DRUGS CAME ON THE
NEW H.I.V. DRUGS CAME ON THE MARKET.
MARKET. AND YOU CAN PROBABLY REMEMBER
AND YOU CAN PROBABLY REMEMBER PEOPLE SAYING, PEOPLE R NOW
PEOPLE SAYING, PEOPLE R NOW TAKING THIS COCKTAIL OF DRUGS,
TAKING THIS COCKTAIL OF DRUGS, AND THEY ARE LIVING LONGER.
AND THEY ARE LIVING LONGER. THE HEALTH IS IMPROVING.
THE HEALTH IS IMPROVING. SO I STARTED THOSE DRUGS AND MY
SO I STARTED THOSE DRUGS AND MY BELT HEALTH GOT BETTER.
BELT HEALTH GOT BETTER. BUT WHEN YOUR I MEAN SYSTEM IS
BUT WHEN YOUR I MEAN SYSTEM IS COMPLETELY DESTROYED LIKE MINE
COMPLETELY DESTROYED LIKE MINE WAS AT THE POINT I STARTED
WAS AT THE POINT I STARTED TREATMENT, THE DRUGS WOULD ONLY
TREATMENT, THE DRUGS WOULD ONLY GET YOU BACK TO A CERTAIN POINT
GET YOU BACK TO A CERTAIN POINT SO I LIVED PRETTY MUCH FOR THE
SO I LIVED PRETTY MUCH FOR THE NEXT TEN OR 15 YEARS, I LIVED
NEXT TEN OR 15 YEARS, I LIVED WHERE I GOT OUT OF BED IN THE
WHERE I GOT OUT OF BED IN THE MORNING, BUT BY TWO OR THREE IN
MORNING, BUT BY TWO OR THREE IN THE AFTERNOON, I WAS EXHAUSTED
THE AFTERNOON, I WAS EXHAUSTED AND BACK IN BED AGAIN. I WAS
AND BACK IN BED AGAIN. I WAS TALKING TO STUDENTS AND I HAD
TALKING TO STUDENTS AND I HAD THIS IDEA TO WRITE THIS BEING
THIS IDEA TO WRITE THIS BEING ABOUT BOOK, BUT I NEVER HAD
ABOUT BOOK, BUT I NEVER HAD ENOUGH ENERGY TO ACT OWN IT.
ENOUGH ENERGY TO ACT OWN IT. SO IT TOOK ME 15 YEARS BASICALLY
SO IT TOOK ME 15 YEARS BASICALLY TO FINALLY WRITE MY BOOK.
TO FINALLY WRITE MY BOOK. ORIGINALLY, IT WAS TO TAKE THIS
ORIGINALLY, IT WAS TO TAKE THIS ONE HOUR PRESENTATION THAT I HAD
ONE HOUR PRESENTATION THAT I HAD DEVELOPED AND WRITE IT DOWN
DEVELOPED AND WRITE IT DOWN BECAUSE I AM NOT A WRITER.
BECAUSE I AM NOT A WRITER. I HAVE A BUSINESS DEGREE.
I HAVE A BUSINESS DEGREE. I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THAT I
I DON'T EVEN REMEMBER THAT I EVER WROTE A RESEARCH PAPER IN
EVER WROTE A RESEARCH PAPER IN COLLEGE.
COLLEGE. THE IDEA OF WRITING A BOOK TO ME
THE IDEA OF WRITING A BOOK TO ME WAS KIND OF FOREIGN.
WAS KIND OF FOREIGN. AND I DECIDED TO WRITE THIS
AND I DECIDED TO WRITE THIS PRESENTATION, BUT I STARTED BY
PRESENTATION, BUT I STARTED BY REREADING -- I PROBABLY HAVE ONE
REREADING -- I PROBABLY HAVE ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND LETTERS IN MY
HUNDRED THOUSAND LETTERS IN MY BASEMENT FROM HIGH SCHOOL
BASEMENT FROM HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS.
STUDENTS. I SPENT MONTHS REREADING
I SPENT MONTHS REREADING LETTERS, PICKING OUT QUOTES, AND
LETTERS, PICKING OUT QUOTES, AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO PUT
TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO PUT IN THE BOOK, AND I KEPT READING
IN THE BOOK, AND I KEPT READING THAT I DIDN'T SHARE ENOUGH ABOUT
THAT I DIDN'T SHARE ENOUGH ABOUT MY PERSONAL STORY IN MY
MY PERSONAL STORY IN MY PRESENTATION.
PRESENTATION. SO WHEN I WROTE MY BOOK, I
SO WHEN I WROTE MY BOOK, I DECIDED TO OPEN UP MY HEART, AND
DECIDED TO OPEN UP MY HEART, AND I SHARED THINGS IN THE BOOK THAT
I SHARED THINGS IN THE BOOK THAT I HAD NEVER REALLY SHARED WITH
I HAD NEVER REALLY SHARED WITH ANYONE.
ANYONE. >>VERY PERSONAL?
>>VERY PERSONAL? >> VERY PERSONAL.
>> VERY PERSONAL. >>AND THAT WAS CATHARTIC.
>>AND THAT WAS CATHARTIC. >>I SHARED THINGS ABOUT THE FACT
>>I SHARED THINGS ABOUT THE FACT THAT I ALMOST COMMITTED SUICIDE
THAT I ALMOST COMMITTED SUICIDE AND DESCRIBED THAT.
AND DESCRIBED THAT. THE MOST PAINFUL THING I SHARED
THE MOST PAINFUL THING I SHARED WAS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY
WAS MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CHILDREN.
CHILDREN. WHEN I WAS DIAGNOSED, CHRIS AND
WHEN I WAS DIAGNOSED, CHRIS AND MATT WERE EIGHT YEARS OLD AND 11
MATT WERE EIGHT YEARS OLD AND 11 YEARS OLD, AND I WAS BASICALLY
YEARS OLD, AND I WAS BASICALLY TOLD I WAS GOING TO DIE IN TWO
TOLD I WAS GOING TO DIE IN TWO YEARS.
YEARS. I HAD A BIG STRUGGLE ABOUT
I HAD A BIG STRUGGLE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT DO I TRY AND GIVE
WHETHER OR NOT DO I TRY AND GIVE THEM A LIFETIME OF LOVE IN TWO
THEM A LIFETIME OF LOVE IN TWO YEARS OR DO I DISTANCE MYSELF SO
YEARS OR DO I DISTANCE MYSELF SO THEY DON'T LIKE ME THAT MUCH SO
THEY DON'T LIKE ME THAT MUCH SO IF I DIE, IT DOESN'T HURT THEM
IF I DIE, IT DOESN'T HURT THEM SO MUCH.
SO MUCH. SO I HAD THIS STRUGGLE OF TRYING
SO I HAD THIS STRUGGLE OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT AM I SUPPOSED
TO FIGURE OUT WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO.
TO DO. I WAS DEALING WITH WHAT ALL
I WAS DEALING WITH WHAT ALL DIVORCED PARENTS DEAL WITH, THE
DIVORCED PARENTS DEAL WITH, THE FACT IT WAS SHARED CUSTODY.
FACT IT WAS SHARED CUSTODY. I DIDN'T HAVE MY CHILDREN ALL
I DIDN'T HAVE MY CHILDREN ALL THE TIME, AND I WAS DEALING WITH
THE TIME, AND I WAS DEALING WITH THE FACT THAT A NUMBER OF MY
THE FACT THAT A NUMBER OF MY FRIENDS WHO HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED
FRIENDS WHO HAD BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH H.I.V. THE SAME TIME I HAD
WITH H.I.V. THE SAME TIME I HAD BEEN WERE DYING.
BEEN WERE DYING. SO I WAS TAKING CARE OF FRIENDS
SO I WAS TAKING CARE OF FRIENDS OF MINE THAT WERE DYING, TRYING
OF MINE THAT WERE DYING, TRYING TO RUN MY BUSINESS AND TRYING TO
TO RUN MY BUSINESS AND TRYING TO BALANCE WHAT KIND OF FATHER AM I
BALANCE WHAT KIND OF FATHER AM I SUPPOSED TO BE TO MY SONS, AND
SUPPOSED TO BE TO MY SONS, AND LOOKING BACK, I DON'T THINK I
LOOKING BACK, I DON'T THINK I WAS A GREAT FATHER.
WAS A GREAT FATHER. I WAS KIND OF DISTANT BUT I
I WAS KIND OF DISTANT BUT I THINK IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS
THINK IT WAS BECAUSE I WAS WRAPPED UP TRYING TO COPE.
WRAPPED UP TRYING TO COPE. IN MY BOOK AT THE END OF THE
IN MY BOOK AT THE END OF THE FIRST CHAPTER, I SAY I HAVE COME
FIRST CHAPTER, I SAY I HAVE COME TO LOOK AT H.I.V. AS BEING A
TO LOOK AT H.I.V. AS BEING A HUGE BLESSING.
HUGE BLESSING. >>THAT'S RIGHT, I REMEMBER THAT!
>>THAT'S RIGHT, I REMEMBER THAT! >>PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE IT
>>PART OF THAT IS BECAUSE IT STRENGTHENED MY SPIRITUAL
STRENGTHENED MY SPIRITUAL BELIEFS.
BELIEFS. I HAVE THIS DREAM, I REFER IN
I HAVE THIS DREAM, I REFER IN THE BOOK TO MY DREAM AS GETTING
THE BOOK TO MY DREAM AS GETTING A MESSAGE FROM THE MESSENGER,
A MESSAGE FROM THE MESSENGER, AND I TALK ABOUT CERTAIN POINTS
AND I TALK ABOUT CERTAIN POINTS OF MY LIFE WHERE I FELT LIKE THE
OF MY LIFE WHERE I FELT LIKE THE MESSENGER WAS WITH ME, AND
MESSENGER WAS WITH ME, AND THAT'S MAYBE MY TERM FOR SAYING
THAT'S MAYBE MY TERM FOR SAYING "GOD."
"GOD." BUT I HAVE A MUCH MORE SPIRITUAL
BUT I HAVE A MUCH MORE SPIRITUAL BELIEF THAN I USED TO THE.
BELIEF THAN I USED TO THE. BUT THE BIGGEST THING THAT
BUT THE BIGGEST THING THAT HAPPENED TO ME IS I KIND OF
HAPPENED TO ME IS I KIND OF THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS
THROUGH THE WHOLE PROCESS LEARNED TO LOVE MYSELF.
LEARNED TO LOVE MYSELF. >> YOU VIEW YOURSELF AS NOT
>> YOU VIEW YOURSELF AS NOT EITHER AGO NOT STICK OR ATHEIST,
EITHER AGO NOT STICK OR ATHEIST, BUT A THIEST IN PART, IS THAT
BUT A THIEST IN PART, IS THAT FAIR?
FAIR? YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR, SAY I AM
YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR, SAY I AM HAVING A CALLING.
HAVING A CALLING. I WOULD SAY I AM A CHRISTIAN.
I WOULD SAY I AM A CHRISTIAN. I BELIEVE IN GOD, AND I DO -- I
I BELIEVE IN GOD, AND I DO -- I MEAN I LOOK AT THAT CALLING AS
MEAN I LOOK AT THAT CALLING AS COMING FROM UP ABOVE.
COMING FROM UP ABOVE. I THINK I AM STILL HERE ONLY
I THINK I AM STILL HERE ONLY LESS THAN TWO PERCENT OF THE
LESS THAN TWO PERCENT OF THE PEOPLE THAT CONTRACTED H.I.V.
PEOPLE THAT CONTRACTED H.I.V. YEAR I DID R LIVING.
YEAR I DID R LIVING. >>AND THE ANNUAL COST FOR YOUR
>>AND THE ANNUAL COST FOR YOUR MEDICATION.
MEDICATION. >>LAST YEAR $49,765.
>>LAST YEAR $49,765. >>A THOUSAND DOLLARS, SOMEWHERE
>>A THOUSAND DOLLARS, SOMEWHERE AROUND A THOUSAND DOLLARS A WEEK
AROUND A THOUSAND DOLLARS A WEEK OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, CLOSE,.
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, CLOSE,. >>ROUNDING.
>>ROUNDING. >>RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES.
>>RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES. >>I MENTIONED THAT, TOO.
>>I MENTIONED THAT, TOO. >>TELL ME ABOUT THAT.
>>TELL ME ABOUT THAT. I FOUND THAT -- MORE THAN
I FOUND THAT -- MORE THAN INTERESTING.
INTERESTING. WOULD YOU EXPAND ON THAT.
WOULD YOU EXPAND ON THAT. >>ONE OF THE AREAS IN THE U.S.
>>ONE OF THE AREAS IN THE U.S. THAT HAS HAD THE BIGGEST
THAT HAS HAD THE BIGGEST INCREASE IN NEW INFECTION RATES
INCREASE IN NEW INFECTION RATES IS RETIREMENT COMMUNITY
IS RETIREMENT COMMUNITY ESPECIALLY IN FLORIDA.
ESPECIALLY IN FLORIDA. AND THAT IS BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE
AND THAT IS BECAUSE WOMEN HAVE GONE THROUGH MENOPAUSE, CANNOT
GONE THROUGH MENOPAUSE, CANNOT GET PREGNANT.
GET PREGNANT. SO IF THEY ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE,
SO IF THEY ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE, THEY ARE NOT TOO CONCERNED ABOUT
THEY ARE NOT TOO CONCERNED ABOUT USING A ***.
USING A ***. IF THEY HAVE RETIRED AND THEY
IF THEY HAVE RETIRED AND THEY ARE IN RETIREMENT COMMUNITY,
ARE IN RETIREMENT COMMUNITY, THEY MAYBE LOST THEIR HUSBAND
THEY MAYBE LOST THEIR HUSBAND THROUGH DEATH OR DIVORCE.
THROUGH DEATH OR DIVORCE. MEN R NOW TAKING MEDICATIONS
MEN R NOW TAKING MEDICATIONS LIKE *** WHICH HELP THEM
LIKE *** WHICH HELP THEM REMAIN SEXUALLY ACTIVE MUCH
REMAIN SEXUALLY ACTIVE MUCH LATER IN LIFE.
LATER IN LIFE. YOU CAN GO TO SOME OF THESE
YOU CAN GO TO SOME OF THESE COMMUNITIES, RETIREMENT
COMMUNITIES, RETIREMENT COMMUNITIES AND H.I.V. IS BEING
COMMUNITIES AND H.I.V. IS BEING PASSED AROUND BY RETIREES WHO
PASSED AROUND BY RETIREES WHO ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO IDEA THAT
ABSOLUTELY HAVE NO IDEA THAT THEY ARE AT RISK FOR H.I.V.
THEY ARE AT RISK FOR H.I.V. AND PEOPLE COMPLIMENT ME ALL THE
AND PEOPLE COMPLIMENT ME ALL THE TIME ABOUT MY WORK WITH TEENS
TIME ABOUT MY WORK WITH TEENS BECAUSE THEY THINK ABOUT YOUNG
BECAUSE THEY THINK ABOUT YOUNG PEOPLE CONTRACTING H.I.V., BUT
PEOPLE CONTRACTING H.I.V., BUT TEEN AGERS USE CONDOMS MORE
TEEN AGERS USE CONDOMS MORE OFTEN THAN ANY OTHER AGE GROUP.
OFTEN THAN ANY OTHER AGE GROUP. THE OLDER YOU GET, THE LESS
THE OLDER YOU GET, THE LESS LIKELY IT IS THAT YOU WILL USE A
LIKELY IT IS THAT YOU WILL USE A *** WHEN YOU HAVE
*** WHEN YOU HAVE INTERCOURSE.
INTERCOURSE. SO WHEN YOU GHETTO A RETIREMENT
SO WHEN YOU GHETTO A RETIREMENT AGE, VERY FEW OF THEM R USING
AGE, VERY FEW OF THEM R USING CONDOMS.
CONDOMS. THERE IS A BIG UPTICK IN
THERE IS A BIG UPTICK IN INSPECTION RATES.
INSPECTION RATES. >>WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO BE THE
>>WHO IS MORE LIKELY TO BE THE SUBJECT OF THIS DISEASE?
SUBJECT OF THIS DISEASE? MY STUDIES REVEAL, LOWER INCOME
MY STUDIES REVEAL, LOWER INCOME GROUPS TEND TO BE TARGETS, IF
GROUPS TEND TO BE TARGETS, IF YOU WILL.
YOU WILL. THERE SEEMS TO BE A BIT OF A
THERE SEEMS TO BE A BIT OF A PATTERN.
PATTERN. DO YOU SEE THAT IN YOUR TRAVELS?
DO YOU SEE THAT IN YOUR TRAVELS? >> THERE IS A PATTERN, AND THERE
>> THERE IS A PATTERN, AND THERE IS GOOD EXPLANATIONS FOR THAT.
IS GOOD EXPLANATIONS FOR THAT. >>GO AHEAD WITH THOSE.
>>GO AHEAD WITH THOSE. >>LIKE IF YOU ARE AFRICAN
>>LIKE IF YOU ARE AFRICAN AMERICAN RIGHT NOW, YOUR CHANCE
AMERICAN RIGHT NOW, YOUR CHANCE OF CONTRACTING H.I.V. IN THE
OF CONTRACTING H.I.V. IN THE U.S. IS SIX TIMES HIGHER THAN IF
U.S. IS SIX TIMES HIGHER THAN IF YOU ARE CAUCASIAN.
YOU ARE CAUCASIAN. >>SIX TIMES.
>>SIX TIMES. >>HIGHER.
>>HIGHER. AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN, ONE OUT OF
AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN, ONE OUT OF 16 OF THEM WILL BE POSITIVE
16 OF THEM WILL BE POSITIVE SOMETIME IN THEIR LIFE TIME.
SOMETIME IN THEIR LIFE TIME. ONE OUT OF 16 AFRICAN AMERICAN
ONE OUT OF 16 AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN.
MEN. AND THE HISPANIC RATE IS ABOUT
AND THE HISPANIC RATE IS ABOUT THREE THREE TIMES AS HIGH AS
THREE THREE TIMES AS HIGH AS RATE OF CAUCASIANS.
RATE OF CAUCASIANS. BUT IT IS TIED TO POVERTY, AND
BUT IT IS TIED TO POVERTY, AND THE REASON POVERTY HAS AN
THE REASON POVERTY HAS AN IMPACT, THERE ARE SEVERAL OF
IMPACT, THERE ARE SEVERAL OF THEM.
THEM. ONE IS 20% OF H.I.V. CASES R
ONE IS 20% OF H.I.V. CASES R TRANSMITTED THROUGH SHARING
TRANSMITTED THROUGH SHARING NEEDLES DURING DRUG USE.
NEEDLES DURING DRUG USE. POVERTY INCREASES DRUG USE.
POVERTY INCREASES DRUG USE. THE SELLING OF DRUGS, BECAUSE
THE SELLING OF DRUGS, BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF THE WAY THEY EARN
THAT'S ONE OF THE WAY THEY EARN INCOME TO SURVIVE.
INCOME TO SURVIVE. POVERTY ALSO INCREASES
POVERTY ALSO INCREASES PROSTITUTION.
PROSTITUTION. HIGH PERCENTAGE OF PROSTITUTES R
HIGH PERCENTAGE OF PROSTITUTES R H.I.V. POSITIVE.
H.I.V. POSITIVE. POVERTY, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS R
POVERTY, THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS R NOT AS GOOD.
NOT AS GOOD. THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO GET SEX
THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO GET SEX EDUCATION, THAT THEY ARE LESS
EDUCATION, THAT THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO GET HEALTH CARE.
LIKELY TO GET HEALTH CARE. SO THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO LEARN
SO THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO LEARN ABOUT H.I.V. PREVENTION.
ABOUT H.I.V. PREVENTION. THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO FIND OUT
THEY ARE LESS LIKELY TO FIND OUT IF THEY ARE INFECTED.
IF THEY ARE INFECTED. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT IS KEEPING THE RATE DOWN NOW IN
KEEPING THE RATE DOWN NOW IN CAUCASIAN COMMUNITY IS JUST IN
CAUCASIAN COMMUNITY IS JUST IN THE LAST FEW YEARS THEY HAVE
THE LAST FEW YEARS THEY HAVE LEARNED IF YOU ARE H.I.V.
LEARNED IF YOU ARE H.I.V. POSITIVE, AND YOU ARE TAKING
POSITIVE, AND YOU ARE TAKING MEDICATION, IT IS VERY LIKELY
MEDICATION, IT IS VERY LIKELY THAT YOU WILL HAVE A LAB -- THEY
THAT YOU WILL HAVE A LAB -- THEY WILL DO A LAB TEST ON YOU TO
WILL DO A LAB TEST ON YOU TO CHECK WHAT IS CALLED YOUR VIRAL
CHECK WHAT IS CALLED YOUR VIRAL LOAD.
LOAD. IN LAYMAN'S TERM, YOUR VIRAL
IN LAYMAN'S TERM, YOUR VIRAL LOAD IS BASICALLY SAYING IS YOUR
LOAD IS BASICALLY SAYING IS YOUR VIRUS GAINING GROUND ON YOUR
VIRUS GAINING GROUND ON YOUR IMMUNE SYSTEM.
IMMUNE SYSTEM. IF YOU HAVE UNDEFECT EFFECTIBLE
IF YOU HAVE UNDEFECT EFFECTIBLE VIRAL LOAD, IT MEANS YOUR VIRUS
VIRAL LOAD, IT MEANS YOUR VIRUS IS BASICALLY UNDER CONTROL AND
IS BASICALLY UNDER CONTROL AND NOT EXPANDING.
NOT EXPANDING. THEY NOW KNOW IF YOU HAVE
THEY NOW KNOW IF YOU HAVE UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD, THE
UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD, THE CHANCE YOU CAN INFECT SOMEBODY
CHANCE YOU CAN INFECT SOMEBODY IS 94 TO 97% LESS THAN IF YOU
IS 94 TO 97% LESS THAN IF YOU ARE NOT ON TREATMENT.
ARE NOT ON TREATMENT. SO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO HAVE
SO PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF WHO HAVE H.I.V. WHO ARE ON MEDICATION AND
H.I.V. WHO ARE ON MEDICATION AND HAVE AN UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD,
HAVE AN UNDETECTABLE VIRAL LOAD, R VERY UNLIKELY TO TRANSMIT THE
R VERY UNLIKELY TO TRANSMIT THE VIRUS TO SOMEONE.
VIRUS TO SOMEONE. BUT IN THE U.S., WE HAVE 300,000
BUT IN THE U.S., WE HAVE 300,000 PEOPLE THAT HAVE H.I.V. THAT
PEOPLE THAT HAVE H.I.V. THAT DON'T KNOW IT WHICH MEANS THEY
DON'T KNOW IT WHICH MEANS THEY ARE NOT ON TREATMENT, WHICH
ARE NOT ON TREATMENT, WHICH MEANS THEY HAVE HIGHER VIRAL
MEANS THEY HAVE HIGHER VIRAL LOADS AND THEY ARE STILL
LOADS AND THEY ARE STILL PASSING.
PASSING. >>AND STILL TRANSMITTING?
>>AND STILL TRANSMITTING? >> TRANSMITTING THE VIRUS.
>> TRANSMITTING THE VIRUS. THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN UPPER
THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE IN UPPER INCOME GROUPS WHO ARE TESTED AND
INCOME GROUPS WHO ARE TESTED AND CAN AFFORD TREATMENT.
CAN AFFORD TREATMENT. SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THE
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS THE INFECTION RATE IS SLOWING DOWN A
INFECTION RATE IS SLOWING DOWN A LITTLE BIT IN THE CAUCASIAN AREA
LITTLE BIT IN THE CAUCASIAN AREA AS OPPOSED TO IN THE PEOPLE OF
AS OPPOSED TO IN THE PEOPLE OF COLOR.
COLOR. >>LET'S ASSUME HYPOTHETICALLY, I
>>LET'S ASSUME HYPOTHETICALLY, I AM NOW A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT,
AM NOW A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT, AND YOU ARE PROVIDING THIS
AND YOU ARE PROVIDING THIS INFORMATION TO ME ABOUT STAMPING
INFORMATION TO ME ABOUT STAMPING OUT AIDS.
OUT AIDS. SUMMARY, WHETHER TWO OR THREE
SUMMARY, WHETHER TWO OR THREE THINGS YOU WILL DELIVER DURING
THINGS YOU WILL DELIVER DURING THAT ONE HOUR PRESENTATION.
THAT ONE HOUR PRESENTATION. >> FIRST OF ALL, I AM GOING TO
>> FIRST OF ALL, I AM GOING TO SUGGEST THAT YOU ABSTAIN.
SUGGEST THAT YOU ABSTAIN. I COULD SAY IF I COULD SNAP MY
I COULD SAY IF I COULD SNAP MY FINGERS TODAY, AND CHANGE PLACES
FINGERS TODAY, AND CHANGE PLACES WITH YOU SO I AM A HIGH SCHOOL
WITH YOU SO I AM A HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT AND I DON'T HAVE H.I.V.,
STUDENT AND I DON'T HAVE H.I.V., KNOWING WHAT I KNOW ABOUT WHAT
KNOWING WHAT I KNOW ABOUT WHAT IT COSTS TO TREAT THE DISEASE
IT COSTS TO TREAT THE DISEASE AND HOW THE DISEASE IMPACTS YOUR
AND HOW THE DISEASE IMPACTS YOUR LIFE AS FAR AS DATING AND FAMILY
LIFE AS FAR AS DATING AND FAMILY AND CHILDREN, KNOWING WHAT I
AND CHILDREN, KNOWING WHAT I KNOW TODAY, THERE IS NO WAY I
KNOW TODAY, THERE IS NO WAY I WOULD EVER CRAWL INTO THE BACK
WOULD EVER CRAWL INTO THE BACK SEAT OF MY CAR ON A SATURDAY
SEAT OF MY CAR ON A SATURDAY NIGHT AND THROW AWAY MY LIFE FOR
NIGHT AND THROW AWAY MY LIFE FOR TEN OR 15 MINUTES OF FUN.
TEN OR 15 MINUTES OF FUN. >>SO I BASICALLY SAY "I WANT YOU
>>SO I BASICALLY SAY "I WANT YOU TO SERIOUSLY THINKING WHETHER OR
TO SERIOUSLY THINKING WHETHER OR NOT HAVING SEX AT THIS POINT IN
NOT HAVING SEX AT THIS POINT IN YOUR LIFE WITH THIS PARTICULAR
YOUR LIFE WITH THIS PARTICULAR PERSON IS WORTH THE CONSEQUENCES
PERSON IS WORTH THE CONSEQUENCES ."
." NOW, I HAVE LEARNED FROM TALKING
NOW, I HAVE LEARNED FROM TALKING TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AND
TO HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS AND READING THOUSANDS OF LETTERS
READING THOUSANDS OF LETTERS THAT THESE KIDS R NOT
THAT THESE KIDS R NOT ABSTAINING.
ABSTAINING. A FRIGHTENING NUMBER OF TEEN
A FRIGHTENING NUMBER OF TEEN AGERS R SEXUALLY ACTIVE.
AGERS R SEXUALLY ACTIVE. SO YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP
SO YOU ARE NOT GOING TO STOP THAT.
THAT. HOPEFULLY I AM ABLE TO CONVINCE
HOPEFULLY I AM ABLE TO CONVINCE SOMEBODY THAT I ALWAYS SAY
SOMEBODY THAT I ALWAYS SAY HAVING SEX IS FOR ADULTS, A AND
HAVING SEX IS FOR ADULTS, A AND YOU SHOULD BEHAVE LIKE AN ADULT,
YOU SHOULD BEHAVE LIKE AN ADULT, AND IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE JUST
AND IT SHOULDN'T BE DONE JUST FOR KICKS.
FOR KICKS. IT SHOULDN'T BE SOMETHING YOU DO
IT SHOULDN'T BE SOMETHING YOU DO ANY TIME YOU HAVE THE
ANY TIME YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY.
OPPORTUNITY. IT IS AN ADULT ACT, AND IF YOU
IT IS AN ADULT ACT, AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX, YOU HAVE
ARE GOING TO HAVE SEX, YOU HAVE TO BE RESPONSIBLE.
TO BE RESPONSIBLE. FIRST THING I WILL TELL PEOPLE,
FIRST THING I WILL TELL PEOPLE, YOU MUST ASSUME EVERY PERSON
YOU MUST ASSUME EVERY PERSON THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH HAS
THAT YOU ARE INVOLVED WITH HAS H.I.V.
H.I.V. I WOULD TELL YOU THE SAME THING
I WOULD TELL YOU THE SAME THING IF YOU WERE IN THE DATING POOL.
IF YOU WERE IN THE DATING POOL. BECAUSE WE HAVE 1.2 MILLION
BECAUSE WE HAVE 1.2 MILLION AMERICANS WITH H.I.V. AND ONE
AMERICANS WITH H.I.V. AND ONE FOURTH OF THEM DON'T KNOW IT.
FOURTH OF THEM DON'T KNOW IT. >> ARE YOU GETTING THE MESSAGE
>> ARE YOU GETTING THE MESSAGE ACROSS?
ACROSS? >> I GIVE THEM FACTS.
>> I GIVE THEM FACTS. I TELL THEY WILL ABOUT MY LIFE.
I TELL THEY WILL ABOUT MY LIFE. I PASS AROUND A BOX THAT SHOWS
I PASS AROUND A BOX THAT SHOWS ALL MY PILLS IN IT AND TALK
ALL MY PILLS IN IT AND TALK ABOUT WHAT IT COSTS. I TALK
ABOUT WHAT IT COSTS. I TALK ABOUT THE SIDE EFFECTS OF MY
ABOUT THE SIDE EFFECTS OF MY MEDICATION.
MEDICATION. ONE OF THE STORIES I TELL AND
ONE OF THE STORIES I TELL AND THEIR EYES JUST GET BIG AS
THEIR EYES JUST GET BIG AS SAUCERS.
SAUCERS. FOR FIVE YEARS, I CARRIED AROUND
FOR FIVE YEARS, I CARRIED AROUND A BACKPACK FULL OF CLOTHES. IF
A BACKPACK FULL OF CLOTHES. IF YOU READ THE SIDE EFFECTS ON
YOU READ THE SIDE EFFECTS ON H.I.V. MEDS, MANY CAUSE
H.I.V. MEDS, MANY CAUSE DIARRHEA.
DIARRHEA. I HAVE BEEN IN THE GYM A NUMBER
I HAVE BEEN IN THE GYM A NUMBER OF TIMES WORKING OUT IN THE GYM,
OF TIMES WORKING OUT IN THE GYM, AND CRAPPED IN MY PANTS WITH NO
AND CRAPPED IN MY PANTS WITH NO WARNING!
WARNING! I PUSHED THE GROCERY CART DOWN
I PUSHED THE GROCERY CART DOWN THE AISLE AND LEFT MY CART IN
THE AISLE AND LEFT MY CART IN THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE BECAUSE
THE MIDDLE OF THE STORE BECAUSE I HAVE HAD AN ACCIDENT IN THE
I HAVE HAD AN ACCIDENT IN THE GROCERY STORE. I HAVE DONE IT
GROCERY STORE. I HAVE DONE IT WALKING AROUND THE BLOCK WITH MY
WALKING AROUND THE BLOCK WITH MY DOGS.
DOGS. EVERY ONE I KNOW THAT HAS H.I.V.
EVERY ONE I KNOW THAT HAS H.I.V. THAT HAS BEEN ON TREATMENT FOR
THAT HAS BEEN ON TREATMENT FOR VERY LONG HAS HAD THAT
VERY LONG HAS HAD THAT EXPERIENCE.
EXPERIENCE. TELLING THAT TO KIDS, BASICALLY
TELLING THAT TO KIDS, BASICALLY WHEN THEY WRITE ME LETTERS THEY
WHEN THEY WRITE ME LETTERS THEY SAY, "YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON
SAY, "YOU ARE THE FIRST PERSON THAT MADE ME UNDERSTAND WHAT IT
THAT MADE ME UNDERSTAND WHAT IT WOULD FEEL LIKE TO GET H.I.V."
WOULD FEEL LIKE TO GET H.I.V." THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE AN
THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE AN ACCIDENT IN THEIR PANTS, AND
ACCIDENT IN THEIR PANTS, AND THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT GET A
THEY DON'T WANT TO NOT GET A PROM DATE BECAUSE THINK H.I.V.
PROM DATE BECAUSE THINK H.I.V. I SAID IF YOU HAVE H.I.V., NO
I SAID IF YOU HAVE H.I.V., NO ONE IS REALLY STANDING IN LINE
ONE IS REALLY STANDING IN LINE ASKING YOU TO GO ON A DATE.
ASKING YOU TO GO ON A DATE. AND THAT'S TRUE FOR A TEEN
AND THAT'S TRUE FOR A TEEN ANNER, BUT IT WOULD BE TRUE FOR
ANNER, BUT IT WOULD BE TRUE FOR YOU.
YOU. IF YOU WERE DATING AND YOU WERE
IF YOU WERE DATING AND YOU WERE H.I.V. POSITIVE AND HAD TO SHARE
H.I.V. POSITIVE AND HAD TO SHARE THAT WITH A PERSON THAT YOU
THAT WITH A PERSON THAT YOU ASKED OUT ON A DATE, THERE WOULD
ASKED OUT ON A DATE, THERE WOULD BE SOME HESITANCY ABOUT EVEN
BE SOME HESITANCY ABOUT EVEN GOING ON A DATE.
GOING ON A DATE. LIKE DO I WANT TO TAKE THE RISK
LIKE DO I WANT TO TAKE THE RISK THAT THIS DATE COULD.
THAT THIS DATE COULD. >>TRANSMIT THE DISEASE?
>>TRANSMIT THE DISEASE? >> NOT THE DATE WOULD, BUT THE
>> NOT THE DATE WOULD, BUT THE DATE WOULD PROGRESS INTO A
DATE WOULD PROGRESS INTO A RELATIONSHIP THAT WOULD END UP
RELATIONSHIP THAT WOULD END UP WHERE WE WERE IN A ***
WHERE WE WERE IN A *** RELATIONSHIP.
RELATIONSHIP. SO I HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE FOR
SO I HAVE THE SAME MESSAGE FOR ANYONE REGARDLESS OF AGE.
ANYONE REGARDLESS OF AGE. WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WHO
WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WHO SHOULD READ MY BOOK, AND I SAY
SHOULD READ MY BOOK, AND I SAY ANYONE, THAT IS OLD ENOUGH TO BE
ANYONE, THAT IS OLD ENOUGH TO BE THINKING ABOUT SEX SHOULD READ
THINKING ABOUT SEX SHOULD READ THIS BOOK.
THIS BOOK. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY ADULTS
I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW MANY ADULTS I HAVE HAD WHO ARE IN THEIR 30'S
I HAVE HAD WHO ARE IN THEIR 30'S AND 40'S AND 50'S WHO HAVE SAID,
AND 40'S AND 50'S WHO HAVE SAID, "I COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT I
"I COULDN'T BELIEVE WHAT I LEARNED FROM YOUR BOOK THAT I
LEARNED FROM YOUR BOOK THAT I DIDN'T KNOW."
DIDN'T KNOW." >>THIS HAS BEEN MY PRIVILEGE.
>>THIS HAS BEEN MY PRIVILEGE. >>THANK YOU, ED.
>>THANK YOU, ED. >>MY PLEASURE.
>>MY PLEASURE. >>