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JON: RIGHT NOW WORLD LEADERS ARE
CONSIDERING TOUGH NEW SANGS TO
HELP CONTAIN IRAN'S NUCLEAR
PROGRAM.
BUT OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS HE WOULD
BACK THIS COUNTRY GOING TO WAR
AS A LAST RESORT TO PREVENT IRAN
FROM GETTING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
SOUTH CAROLINA SENATOR LINDSEY
GRAHAM IS A REPUBLICAN ON THE
ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE.
IT SOUNDS PRETTY OMINOUS AT A
TIME WHEN WE ARE JUST WRAPPING
UP THE WAR IN IRAQ AND WE'VE
STILL GOT THE WAR IN AFGHANISTAN
UNDERWAY.
BUT YOU SAY IT MIGHT BE
NECESSARY?
>> YEAH, MOST DEFINITELY.
THE IAEA REPORT ABOUT IRAN'S
CLEAR PROGRAM IS CHILLING, AND
THE QUESTION YOU HAVE TO ASK
YOURSELF, WHERE DOES THE MOST
DANGEROUS SCENARIO WE COULD FACE
IN THE 21st CENTURY.
I THINK IT WOULD BE THE IRANIAN,
THE AYATOLLAHS WITH A NUCLEAR
WEAPON.
THEY MAY GIVE IT TO TERRORISTS,
USE IT AGAINST ISRAEL.
BLACKMAIL THE REGION.
I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY DOUBT
IN MY MIND THAT IS A
NONSTARTER.
SANCTIONS COULD WORK.
YOU'D HAVE TO CUT OFF THE RYE
FIND PETROLEUM.
THE RUSSIANS AND THE CHINESE
WOULD HAVE TO PLAY HARDER THAN
THEY ARE TODAY.
I'M WILLING TO TRY ANOTHER ROUND
OF SANCTIONS BUT I WOULD USE
MILITARY FORCE AS THE LAST
OPTION, NOT RELISH IT, BE
RESOLVED TO DO IT, BECAUSE IF
THEY DO GET A NUCLEAR WEAPON THE
WHOLE MIDEAST GOES INTO A
NUCLEAR ARMS RACE AND THE
ISRAELIS WILL NEVER KNOW FREEDOM
AND SECURITY IF IRAN HAS A
NUCLEAR WEAPON.
JON: WHAT ABOUT THE ESTIMATE IN
2003 THAT ESTIMATED THEY HAD
GIVEN UP?
>> IT WAS WRONG.
IN A CLOSED DICTATORSHIP YOU
REALLY DON'T KNOW.
I'M AFRAID TIME IS NOT ON OUR
SIDE.
I THINK IT'S UNIVERSALLY
BELIEVED THEY ARE TRYING TO
DEVELOP A NUCLEAR WEAPON NOT
NUCLEAR POWER.
THE IAEA REPORT WAS CHILLING.
THEY ARE FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD
THAN I THOUGHT.
THE ADMINISTRATION NEEDS TO GET
THE RUSSIANS AND CHINESE ON
BOARD QUICKLY.
IF THAT DOESN'T WORK ISRAEL HAS
TO MAKE A DECISION.
IT WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE
UNITED STATES TO USE MILITARY
FORCE THAN ISRAEL IF IT WAS EVER
USED BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE
CAPABILITY.
THE IRANEE MILITARY PROGRAM IS
TOO REDUNDANT IN MY VIEW TO HIT
IT WITH ONE STRIKE.
YOU'D HAVE TO GO AFTER THEIR
ARMY, NAVY AND AIR FORCE, AND
NEUTER THIS REGIME.
THAT IS WHAT IS LEFT OF THIS
BECAUSE WE WAITED SO LONG.
JON: YOU BRING UP AN INTERESTING
POINT THAT TIES TO THINGS ON
CAPITOL HILL.
WHAT HAPPENS IF THE SOUP
IRCOMMITTEE CAN'T REACH ANY
AGREEMENT ON CUTTING THE AMOUNT
NECESSARY.
YOU SAY YOU'RE VERY CONCERNED
ABOUT OUR MILITARY IF THE
PENTAGON HAS TO BEAR THE CUTS.
>> I ASKED LEON PANETTA, HE SAID
IT WOULD BE SHOOTING OURSELVES
IN THE HEAD.
HE RESPONDED BY LETTER TO A
REQUEST THAT SENATOR MCCAIN AND
I MADE IN WRITING, THE EFFECT IT
WOULD HAVE ON THE MILITARY.
PLEASE READ THAT LETTER OR PARTS
OF IT TO YOUR LISTENERS.
IT IS THE MOST CHILLING ACCOUNT,
A 23% ACROSS THE BOARD CUT IN
DEFENSE.
WE'D HAVE THE SMALLEST NAVY
SINCE 1915, HAVE THE SMALLEST
ARMY SINCE 1940.
THE SEQUESTRATION OF 600 BILL
IODOD WOULD DESTROY OUR NATIONAL
DEFENSE.
THAT IS NOT ME SAYING IT THAT'S
LEON PANETTA, AND I'M CERTAINLY
NOT GOING TO LET THAT HAPPEN.
JON: PLEASE GET THAT LETTER UP
ON THE WEB SIDE.
YOU AND JOHN MCCAIN STAND
SHOULDER TO SHOULDER.
HE HAD A TESTY EXCHANGE WITH
DEFENSE SECRETARY LEON PANETTA
ESSENTIALLY SUGGESTING THAT THE
ADMINISTRATION DRAGGED ITS FEET
IN NEGOTIATING WITH IRAN TO THE
POINT THAT IRAN SAID, OKAY --
>> IRAQ.
JON: I'M SORRY, IRAQ.
IRAQ SAID ESSENTIALLY GET YOUR
TROOPS OUT NOW.
AND WE SAID OKAY.
THE SENATOR SAID THAT'S WHAT THE
ADMINISTRATION WANTED.
DO YOU AGREE?
>> THERE IS A HECK OF A CASE TO
BE MADE THAT WE WERE NOT
ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT IT.
I WAS THERE WITH SENATOR
LIEBERMAN AND MCCAIN AND I WAS
TALKING LEGAL PROTECTIONS TO OUR
TROOPS.
AND THEY SAY HOW MANY TROOPS DO
YOU WANT TO HAVE HERE.
I TURNED TO OUR AMBASSADOR AND
COMMANDER AND SAID, WELL WE
HAVEN'T DECIDED THAT YET.
WE'VE NEVER GIVEN THE IRAQIS A
NUMBER.
HERE IS MY CONCERN.
BASED ON WHAT THE PRESIDENT DID
IN AFGHANISTAN, RECOVERING THE
SURGE FORCES IN SEPTEMBER OF
THIS YEAR, AND NOT AND OPTION
GIVEN TO OUR COMMANDER'S GIVEN
TWO MONTHS BEFORE HISEE HREFPBLT
HE PROMISED TO HAVE ALL THE
TROOPS OUT BEFORE 22008.
THE SUNNI SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE
SAYS IRAN IS EMBOLDENED BY US
LEAVING AND IS AFRAID OF OUTSIDE
INFLUENCES WITH US LEAVING.
IN THE KURDS AND THE SUNNIES
WANT TROOPS AND ANWAR AL-AWLAKI
SAID HE WOULD DO IT IF WE EVER
HRAOEFD, I THINK FRANKLY THIS
ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN PLAYING
POLITICS WITH TROOP LEVELS IN
IRAQ AND AFGHANISTAN.
THERE IS A GOOD CASE TO BE MADE
FOR THAT IN AFGHANISTAN.
I DON'T THINK THE IRAQI MILITARY
ADVISED THEIR CIVILIAN LEADERS
THAT THEY NEEDED U.S. HELP POST
2011.
IT'S JUST SUSPICIOUS TO ME THAT
WE COULDN'T DELIVER WHEN
EVERYBODY ELSE WAS EMBRACING THE
IDEA OF A FOLLOW ON FORCE.
JON: IFFY RAN IS EMBOLDENED BY
OUR DEPARTURE WE DO NOT WANT
THAT COUNT THREE WITH A NUCLEAR
WEAPON.
>> IRAN IS THREATENED BY